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Derry & Abbot Gone!


magpiejue

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If you want dour try Paul Hart. He was appointed caretaker manager after Danny Wilson was sacked. Danny had an excellent previous season, failed in the next and Paul Hart had 11 games to stay up. W1, D4, L6, and alienated just about the whole fan base by implying that relegation was their fault much more than his.


I wish you well.


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I have spent the entire day trying to figure out why, from a timing point of view that is. We would have struggled to get anything from Saturdays games with any team we have had any the last 10 years and I just don't understand why after that result.


 


I really hope we don't give it to Paul Hart, I like him as a person and he is one of the very best youth coaches out there but as @medievalmickey said his conduct whilst in charge of Swindon was bizarre to say the least.


 


The bookies are saying Darren Ferguson is favourite, would be interesting to see attractive passing football at the Lane but all of his previous squads have been put together with millions of pounds so for that reason I can't see him coming to Notts.


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Evans & Raynor are dining out on one League 2 promotion, a very flukey League 1 promotion & the support of a VERY accommodating Chairman who gives in to his every whim, which includes about 150 short term loan signings.


It doesn't matter whether you're a Crowd favourite, if you fall out with "the Loan Ranger & Tonto", you're out, just ask Johnny Mullins, Daniel Nardiello, Kieran Agard & Alex Revell to name just four!!


We needed to be ready and prepared for life in the Championship & we plainly weren't. We signed 13 players in the summer & they've all to a man been pap, & I include Paul Green & Matt Derbyshire in that. The worst of a terrible bunch though is a defender that Evans insists in playing week in, week out, Kirk Broad(club)foot!!


How can any side cultivate team spirit when there's at least two new loan players in the starting lineup every week?


Can't stand the bloke & his hoppo, never have from day one!!!


 


That's why I'd love some club to take him, but don't hate Notts that much, maybe Posh eh?


Needed to explain why I hate the bloke so much, and losing to Wednesday at the weekend......


see you next season lads!!


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Can we just have one season... One full season... where we don't have total upheaval

No!

That's rule number 1 at the Lane. You shall not get comfortable in the dugout as manager or the stands as a fan.

Rule 2 is Danny Wilson will always get mentioned whenever we sack yet another manager.

Rule 3 is we always leave it late to change. Too late this time imo.

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Gutted if I'm honest I was hoping to at least get the Scunny game out the way, one of our winnables before he was booted but think it was inevitable and only a matter of time.

At least now we will see what if any spirit the team has and if they are up for the battle.

Whoever gets the job needs to be a strong character backed by the club and the fans. Holding my breath for the right man so we'll see what transpires. I'll be here this season and next to watch the soap opera that is Notts County. I had a wheelbarrow...

Regards Al

You Pies!

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This is a hard call for me as I cant say im shocked at Derry being given the boot going on recent results but on the other hand I am shocked as I thought you were playing some good football at times and Derry seemed to be building a good team.


 


The biggest loss and the downfall appeared to be after Laing & McLauglin loan deals ran out as I think even many county fans believe they contributed to the climb up the table ( the climb up the table that has cost me a county top) and the injury to spencer was a massive loss as well.


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I suppose you can quite easiy compare our current situation to that over the river. In Stuart Pearce they had a manager who the fans absolutely adored as a bloke, but ultimately there came a time when sentiment went out the window, and they just had to accept that from a footbal point of view it wasn't working out.

Now I don't think for a minute Derry did a bad job. Despite an awful run of results since the turn of the year you have to remembeer just how much progress was made in a short space of time. He and Abbott re-built bridges with the fans, helped us finally move into our own training ground - and thats a legacy that will remain. I honestly think they also played a part in turfing the Rugby club out. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike NRC, but let's face it we have to look after ourselves - and having three teams pkaying on the ML pitch ultimately wouldn't have done anyone any favours.

IF we do what Forest did and bring in someone who knows the league and who can get us organised then fair enough. But I reallly doubt that's going to happen. We've seen it all too often, and I've absolutely no doubt we'll go for some young rookie manager who then won't be given time to build properly.

We live in an era where everybody demands instant success. And if you don't get it your out the door. But clubs in our position need to look at the bigger picture. We're a league one club - nothing more and nothing less. We're nowhere near ready for a crack at the championship, but we certainly shouldn't be a league 2 club.

If we want success we have to think long term. If we're going to keep pinning our hopes on young first time managers we MUST give them the chance to build their own side. Despite what people say, Derry had to build virtually a whole side from scratch under some severe finanancial constraints thanks to a lot of expensive talent which failed to live up to it's hype under various different managers over the past few seasons.

We have to bring our own young players through rather than relying on loanees. Loan signings might work for you once in a while. McGregor and Grealish last season were a rare example of it actually working, but that was a unique situation in that they both genuinely wanted to be here, and both wanted to stay for the whole season.

But as we've proved this season, relying on quality loan signings dosen't do you any favours in the long haul. Since Petrasso, LAaing, McGlaughlin, Ishmail and Cassidy went back we've dropped like a stone.

People slag Derry off for his January signings but you have to reember the position we where in. We were still just outside the play-offs. It's clear he brought in the likes of Daniels, Hayhurtst and Bajner as "projects" - players he could work with and build up into first team players over a period of time, because at that point we all thought we were safe in the league. But as it turned out we were not, but who could have expected the run we've been on?

It was clear every time you listened to Greg or Shaun speak that there was a long term vision for the club. You only have to look back at an extended interview wth Greg just last month where he went into the club's recruitment policy in great detail. It seemed like we'd finally learned our lesson and were building for the future, thinking long term, thinking sustainable.

The fact of the matter is once again Notts have shot themselves in the foot. Will we ever learn? We have not had one manager for a whole season since 2008-09, it's absolutely pathetic. How can anyone possibly expect any sort of success with that much change cosntantly happening? There's no continuity whatsoever.

When was the last time we actually gave someone time to build their own side? I suppose really you'd have to go back as far as Jimmy Sirrel. He arrived with the club in turmoil and without two pennies to rub together. He didn't achieve instant success but look what he did over time.

Same with Brian Clough, he hardly achieved instant success did he? In fact correct me if I'm wrong @super_ram but I'm fairly sure Derby finished lower in his first season than what they had done the year before he arrived?

What was wrong with letting a manager build properly?

At least in Derry we had a guy who would work his fingers to the bone in the best interests of our club. He genuinely cared. He was a rare good guy in a business where so often it's all "me me me".

Unless we do actually go for someone with a proven track record at this level then this is a completely pointless move to make. But having had to pay off SD & GA's contracts we're hardly going to go and "poach" someone who's had success.

Yesterday I was unsure what to think, but I guess you can tell me thoughts now. Never been so gutted to see a manager go. Good people like Derry are hard to find in this game these days, but that's the sad state of modern football when people like him get treated like that.

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You can even see where this is going. We appoint another dud manager, because lets face it, no-one wants a job where the chairman will sack you within a year and the players you inherit are rubbish. We end up getting relegated, fans stop going and blame Ray Trew, then Ray throws his toys out the pram (again), threatening to pull out. What angers me even more is that you can almost gurantee they haven't thought about the replacement. So you sack the manager with a handful of games left, and leave Mike Edwards in charge.

I don't want this to happen, but I can't see it going any other way.

What is more annoying is the club seems to lack any kind of plan what-so-ever. They appoint managers and says it is a 'long term project', but we've heard it all before and we know in less than a years time, with the squad maybe 2 places off where the budget would put them, we will be after a new manager. Ray Trew acts like the owners of Man City or Chelsea, trying to get instant success. Only issue is, Chelsea and Man City have a limitless budget and paying a dud 200,000 a week means nothing, nor does sacking a manager. Notts County drop 500 in a home gate due to another poor appointment and the owner comes out bleeting about how he has put 19mil into the club. Spot the difference. 

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I think you're being very charitable @weymouthPIE. Shaun Derry has used 43 players this season, the vast majority of which were his own signings or contract extensions. 10 of the starting 11 and 6 of the 7 subs on Saturday were his own signings. It certainly is his own team, and it's one that has sustained relegation form over several months. That he then feels he needs to add even more to the squad surely shows that something has gone badly wrong with his recruitment policy. This revolving door recruitment policy has nothing to do with stability or building a side for the future, the signings quite simply smack of panic.


 


Jimmy Sirrel won promotion in his first full season, and at Derby Clough put together a side that would one day win major silverware. Great managers don't always deliver instant success, but they don't average 0.6 points per game over half a season either. What have SD and GA actually left us to build on? Building a team around Gary Jones, Hayden Mullins and Garry Thompson isn't long-term planning, they're a quick fix at best. Our most important players are a motley crew of loanees and old men and will probably take us down. The team doesn't have any kind of spine. Good managers build from the back, and that's the area that has been most neglected. We rely on our fitness coach and a man approaching 40, and our only recognised right-back has mysteriously fallen out of favour. We have a young centre half (McKenzie) who may be promising, but no-one actually knows because SD didn't trust him!


 


Was it Daniels who was signed permanently, scored on his home debut and was then dropped in favour of an untried one-month loanee, never to be seen again? That's not long-term planning, it's a manager desparately shuffling his pack in an attempt to hit on a successful formula. And it probably did much to destroy the morale of the squad, too.


 


Managers should be permitted mistakes and dips in form, but this goes deeper than that. Would you trust SD and GA to build another squad for next season on the basis of anything more than blind hope?


 


I really wanted SD to be the man for many seasons to come, but sadly he has wasted his opportunity with us.


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You can even see where this is going. We appoint another dud manager, because lets face it, no-one wants a job where the chairman will sack you within a year and the players you inherit are rubbish. We end up getting relegated, fans stop going and blame Ray Trew, then Ray throws his toys out the pram (again), threatening to pull out. What angers me even more is that you can almost gurantee they haven't thought about the replacement. So you sack the manager with a handful of games left, and leave Mike Edwards in charge.

I don't want this to happen, but I can't see it going any other way.

What is more annoying is the club seems to lack any kind of plan what-so-ever. They appoint managers and says it is a 'long term project', but we've heard it all before and we know in less than a years time, with the squad maybe 2 places off where the budget would put them, we will be after a new manager. Ray Trew acts like the owners of Man City or Chelsea, trying to get instant success. Only issue is, Chelsea and Man City have a limitless budget and paying a dud 200,000 a week means nothing, nor does sacking a manager. Notts County drop 500 in a home gate due to another poor appointment and the owner comes out bleeting about how he has put 19mil into the club. Spot the difference. 

 

I dislike the modern habit of sacking managers and am fed up of the constant search for a new boss, but you probably won't find another sacking this season that was more justified. As for the budget, we had the 18th highest at the start of the season. That was before we signed a cast of thousands in January, as well as JCR, McCourt and Lita, who won't have come cheap.

 

I agree that boards should stick with managers through bad spell. But how many managers who were able to put together their own squads took their teams down in their first full season have then gone on to be successful? If you put sentiment aside, SD has not laid any foundations for the future. When he arrived he streamlined the squad, sent back the pointless loanees and found his best 11. But this season he has simply repeated Kiwomya's mistakes.

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I agree with what both @weymouthPIE & @Dangerous Sausage have said to some extent, it just seems a very petulant decision given that this bad run has been going on since late December and nothing has been done before.


 


There are too many unknown variables to squarely lay the blame at anyone's doors 100%.


 


I have just had enough of feeling like I am in a washing machine on a fast spin cycle with the club, is that all of the current owners fault, definitely not, I think the maelstrom of feelings towards the Chairman & his wife stems from them inadvertently dangling the carrot of stability and success which we all crave so badly and we know (as fans) that chopping and changing isn't the best way to go yet they feel it is the best way forward whilst having to balance that against the monetary climate the club finds itself in.


 


All I do know for definite is that I have had enough and I am not in anyway excited nor looking forward to the next appointment as again, like @Dangerous Sausage so succinctly put it our managers are seasonal.


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Thing is this day and age its all to easy to blame the manager. yeah you will have those that say he buys the players he selects the team he motivates the team etc etc etc etc.


 


But its up to the players to go out there and play, play to win, play to earn there money, and most importantly play to entertain the paying crowd who support the club week in week out home and away.


 


Must be a Nottingham thing as both Forest and County seem to have a managerial revolving door in place right now.


 


I'm not saying Trew or Fawaz should go from either club but to quote the late Brian Clough (happy 80th Birthday for the other day) "if a chairman appoints a manger and then sacks him then the chairman should go as well".

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