BREXIT.....

[Feral Fox]

Seeming as I'm the rabid dog politician on here, seems the good ship Tory Brexit really is on the rocks with ministers quitting right left and centre so far today!

When Davis went this morning most main stream media forgot to mention his whole team went with him!

Now with that fool Johnson leaving by the back door the current state of play for the Tories is not great. We have a leader propped up by the DUP votes, who, if it carries on the way it has so far today, will neutralise the majority of the DUP in the space of 72 hours?

Can't see how this car crash can be repaired now from a Tory side of things. Unless they go full on Victorian and bring in an idiot like Mogg and his top hat. 

Looks like another General Election sooner than most thought!

[liampie]

the torys need to be gone, they are ruining the nation and making it harder for those who already had it hard enough.

i thought this may have been about having another vote on the britexit debate, i really hate politics due to all the nonsense.  

[Fan of Big Tone]

The whole thing is a complete mess, who knows what will happen next? None of this is any good for the common bloke on the street, whilst all the politicians will be in clover what ever happens.

[Chris]

I really don't care, I know people will say I should but I'm beyond it. They spend so long fussing over crap, that actual changes become impossible to sort out. I'd rather see a tackle on drugs, anti-social behaviour than any sort of delayed nonsense about BritExit.

The whole things a joke and I've always said it won't happen.

Did you know people in Texas want separation from the US now? The world's gone mad.

[CliftonMagpie]

Two things need to happen.

BREXIT

And the Tories thrown out of power.

[Magic magpie]

Only time will tell if this is good or bad personally I don’t partake in politic talk ... so I don’t have a clue which you do say is stupied of me.

[Piethagoram]

On 09/07/2018 at 21:55, CliftonMagpie said:

Two things need to happen.

BREXIT

And the Tories thrown out of power.

@CliftonMagpieWhy does Brexit need to happen? Would be interested to hear why you think Brexit is so essential and perhaps provide some economic evidence as to why it will be good for the UK?

[CliftonMagpie]

On 15/07/2018 at 09:00, Piethagoram said:

@CliftonMagpieWhy does Brexit need to happen? Would be interested to hear why you think Brexit is so essential and perhaps provide some economic evidence as to why it will be good for the UK?

You have to respect the choice made by those who voted for it to happen.

The rest I don't need to argue because my opening point wins, otherwise why have polls to decide what happens when you can disrespect the outcome.

[Piethagoram]

@CliftonMagpieIt is good for democracy when something that is economically so damaging to the UK, as the facts become apparent, that there is a second referendum. 

Your failure to provide an economic argument in favour of Brexit says it all....

[liampie]

8 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

@CliftonMagpieIt is good for democracy when something that is economically so damaging to the UK, as the facts become apparent, that there is a second referendum. 

Your failure to provide an economic argument in favour of Brexit says it all....

what if people vote in favour for it again?

[CliftonMagpie]

13 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

@CliftonMagpieIt is good for democracy when something that is economically so damaging to the UK, as the facts become apparent, that there is a second referendum. 

Your failure to provide an economic argument in favour of Brexit says it all....

State 3 valid reasons why the UK won't be better off if they left the E.U?

Do you know how other none E.U nations survive being outside of the union? There's a couple of big nations that take care of themselves well enough. 

[Piethagoram]

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/november/brexit-threatens-supply-of-isotopes

When you have lost a friend to cancer, despite that these isotopes are essential for treatment.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/26/car-industry-leaders-blame-brexit-for-uk-collapse-in-investment

My sister has already lost her job to Brexit as her department's work has moved to Germany. Loss of tax revenues that help support the NHS

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chlorinated-chicken-usa-trade-deal-donald-trump-brexit-a8295141.html

EU Food standards essential to be maintained. Not prepared to eat chlorinated chicken, GM foods etc

@CliftonMagpie here are 3 for starters, now, please comment and propose for your 3 in support of Brexit in response?

 

[CliftonMagpie]

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brexit/ten-reasons-to-leave-eu/

Here's 10 which I agree with, very good read for those who believe the UK voted blindly or was solely motivated due to being racist. BTW, I'm sorry to read the first two points raised by Piethagoram but I suspect they are rarer and more personal.  

[liampie]

7 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/november/brexit-threatens-supply-of-isotopes

When you have lost a friend to cancer, despite that these isotopes are essential for treatment.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/26/car-industry-leaders-blame-brexit-for-uk-collapse-in-investment

My sister has already lost her job to Brexit as her department's work has moved to Germany. Loss of tax revenues that help support the NHS

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chlorinated-chicken-usa-trade-deal-donald-trump-brexit-a8295141.html

EU Food standards essential to be maintained. Not prepared to eat chlorinated chicken, GM foods etc

@CliftonMagpie here are 3 for starters, now, please comment and propose for your 3 in support of Brexit in response?

 

@Piethagoram but what if people vote in favour of leaving in a second referendum?

[Piethagoram]

5 hours ago, liampie said:

@Piethagoram but what if people vote in favour of leaving in a second referendum?

of course, provided no electoral rules are broken, as has been the case (spending limits broken)in the referendum in 2016

[Piethagoram]

5 hours ago, CliftonMagpie said:

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brexit/ten-reasons-to-leave-eu/

Here's 10 which I agree with, very good read for those who believe the UK voted blindly or was solely motivated due to being racist. BTW, I'm sorry to read the first two points raised by Piethagoram but I suspect they are rarer and more personal.  

.."rarer of more personal."..

You cannot be serious @CliftonMagpie... so if one of your family , heaven forbid, contracts cancer and the NHS doctors say that the chance of survival has been diminished by lack of radioisotopes, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? The piece is written on the British Medical Association website, please do not ignore the facts.

The Financial Services sector provides circa 15% of tax revenues. Jobs are leaving the City of London as companies cannot take the economic risk of being outside the Single Market. Significant income tax revenues lost to the Exchequer, for what? Other EU countries are therefore gaining tax income at our expense.  Even Mrs May says there will have to be tax rises to support the NHS...why...because of these lost tax revenues

[Chris]

In or out, the UK's polices have to be enforced and the belief/word of the people needs to be respected.

I'm not talking the BREXIT poll, I'm talking about how we spend money and how many refugees we take in. Most these days aren't escaping war, they are using it as a way to enter other countries for all the wrong reason. It's great people can get a better life but at what cost to others? The UK has become a joke under both main parties leaderships and, I personally don't care about this.

Provided English people are put first.

[Piethagoram]

@CliftonMagpie some responses re Capital & Conflict diatribe

1. Centralised Power is the wrong way to go

In these days of austerity, local government has suffered from cutting funding from the UK government. We live in a world of globalisation, the EU has stood up to Google, Uber, Facebook ...has the current UK government concerted any action against these companies???? How many EU decisions have gone against the UK goverments position over the years of membership ( remember we have a veto on the most important)...well it's been bugger all

2. Fringe Nations perform better

Switzerland and Norway mentioned. You forget Norway pays the EU a direct contribution to its budget but without any say. Norway's fishing and oil and Swiss banking, are significant parts of their economies, which they have chose to protect at a cost. They are both rule takers from the EU, a fact of economic life.

UK is in a worse trade position to negotiate its own trade deals...you think India and China will sign trade deals without the easing of UK visa restrictions...India has publicly said that any trade deal needs significant easing on visas... Remember the lie about Turkey joining the EU, just think of amount of Indians and Chinese aiming to come on tourist visas and staying?

3. Regulation should be local

EU have legislated on paid holidays, restrictions on the ability to fire / lay off people without paying a settlement, job protection... Think of mortgage providers re evaluating lending risk if you can be dismissed / contract terminated without any back stop in finances to cover looking for another job

We are in a global market, companies tend to go with the EU standards as they are the highest and therefore can rely on this to sell into other countries where regulation standards may be lower. e.g, pharmaceuticals

4. The economic disaster that is Southern Europe

Nothing to do with the UK...... Italy and Greece both being in the Euro. German tax payer has taken a hit on Greece but Germany has net benefited as EUR was de facto lower than the DEM rate may have been, and German industry had reaped the benefits. Cost to the UK of Euro, absolutely nil

5. Immigation policy is becoming more important

47% of immigration numbers directly controlled by UK government, off the top of my head... 53%of EU immigration.....add to prosperity of UK as well as providing NHS necessary doctors and nurses. EU law allows us, the UK, to deport any EU national after 3 months without a job.... but does UK government do this???? nah.... Incompetence of the highest order then

6. Trade deals are a red herring

So how many trade deals will be compromised on the easing of visa restrictions? Are you happy finding in the supermarket chlorinated chicken, GM foods as they were written into US trade deal?

7. Further integration with the EU means economic decline

Complete nonsense...Car manufacturing, airbus...both rely on parts across borders...WTO tariffs would seriously harm UK manufacturing industry with companies relocating in the Single Market to avoid cross border tariffs. British manufacturing jobs will go

8. Democratic accountability matters

UK appoints through council of ministers.... again, hardly any EU legislation has been against UK interests...and the key ones, UK has a veto on

9. Land Ownership and CAP

well land ownership in UK owned by a privileged few... a UK policy that UK government can do on its own...absolutely nothing to do with EU

CAP...yes needs reform but UK reliant on EU food imports and agricultural workers. Who is going to pick food post Brexit? Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese?

10. The Common Fisheries Policy

UK fishing companies have sold out to takeovers by say Spanish companies and pocketed the cash...They had some control but decided to cash in for themselves. They cant complain 

Just to say not a very professional paper produced by them . Proving that #StopBrexit is necessary

. 

 

[Piethagoram]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2018/jul/16/complete-madness-anna-soubry-on-the-government-accepting-amendments-to-customs-bill

hundreds of thousands of jobs will go ‘if we do not deliver frictionless trade’. ‘Nobody voted to be poorer,’ she said. ‘Nobody voted leave on the basis that somebody with a gold-plated pension and inherited wealth would take their job away from them’.

 

[Piethagoram]

potential of 2.8m jobs going for leaving the EU without a deal...the NHS would not survive with that tax funding lost. This is why protecting the NHS finances is best served with being in the EU

[Piethagoram]

 

[Feral Fox]

Good solid debate. Well done guys and gals.

Shame the Tories are in such a mess they have actually tabled a motion to bring FORWARD their summer holidays so all,the conversations about Brexit can stop earlier. Now that’s panic in my book.

Odds are we’ll be in a general election soon enough.

Brexit is the most devious plan to envoke all that is bad in this country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-protest-bus-blockade-woman-driver-headscarf-trump-latest-a8447536.html

 

says it all for me. Well done to the lass, sitting patiently, smiling the whole time, whilst the scum of the Earth is merely metres away from her.

The little Englander approach doesn’t and will not work. 

 

[Northants Pie]

The issue for me with any politician is that they are working in favour of their funders & friends, irrelevant on which political side you stand, thats the truth unfortunately.

They being the politicians gave our power away for favours back in the 80's, they being the politicians should now for once do what is best for the people they apparantly represent.

Donald Trump can be an abhorrent pig but if you take notice of what he is trying to say on certain subjects like brexit he's actually bang on the money.

[Piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram]

"Donald Trump can be an abhorrent pig but if you take notice of what he is trying to say on certain subjects like brexit he's actually bang on the money." from@Northants Pie