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Sacking Neal Ardley at this point will be a mistake


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6 minutes ago, Joshua said:

So would I, but realistically with a budget the better players will take it so players able to put in a good performance does come across as a good idea.

I think this is where gambling on younger players released by Premier League/Championship clubs come into it.

I think the signing of Roberts was a breath of fresh air. We've been trying to make those types of signings for years. Remember Canham? Who did we sign him from, Bath was it? Roberts was well identified and looked to be well scouted. From the get go, it looked like Ardley was excited about him, even before he'd kicked a ball for us.

Wootton has done really well for us so far and fits the way Ardley wants to play.

Recruitment is always a gamble, but the clubs that are best at recruitment reduce the percentages in their favour. 
 

13 minutes ago, Joshua said:

 

Regan Booty looked like a player that could be average or class, but he always put in a good performance I feel.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, Gomis never looked like someone who could assist Notts and arrived with a lot of hype. 

I really liked Booty. Think it's a shame that injury has hampered his progress. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Joshua said:

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration, Gomis never looked like someone who could assist Notts and arrived with a lot of hype. 

It was tongue in cheek, but I admit it was an exaggeration.

Gomis made Sam looked like Cristiano Ronaldo.
 

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1 hour ago, Joshua said:

Do you expect the backup options to be quality?

When you have a larger squad and a reserve team, you can afford to take hopeful punts on unknown quantities. When you have a smaller squad, the idea is that your players are of higher quality and can help you immediately. Last season (when most of the squad was assembled within a week or so), we had Dennis and Wilson as back-up strikers, both of whom were proven goalscorers in this division or the one above. This season we've got an untried teenager and a player who has never played in England before and is badly lacking in match practice. That's a high-risk strategy. So in short, yes.

Interesting discussion folks, keep it going :)

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I understand all that, but its clear that Notts has spent a fair portion of whatever wage budget remains.

If you can afford to build a small squad that is fine, I don't think we do. In this case, it would make sense to add some players who can bring in those basic qualities which a good constant performer has but one which might not become any better.

6 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said:

his season we've got an untried teenager and a player who has never played in England before and is badly lacking in match practice. That's a high-risk strategy. So in short, yes

And this is exactly my point above.

Elisha Sam could be a powerhouse, it depends what is expected of him but he needs to be given the odd start.

Quote-on-patience-and-attitude.jpg

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13 hours ago, DangerousSausage said:

When you have a larger squad and a reserve team, you can afford to take hopeful punts on unknown quantities. When you have a smaller squad, the idea is that your players are of higher quality and can help you immediately. Last season (when most of the squad was assembled within a week or so), we had Dennis and Wilson as back-up strikers, both of whom were proven goalscorers in this division or the one above. This season we've got an untried teenager and a player who has never played in England before and is badly lacking in match practice. That's a high-risk strategy. So in short, yes.

Interesting discussion folks, keep it going :)

Exactly this.

This is why myself and many others were so underwhelmed when Knowles was signed. It's not like it wasn't known that Sam would take time, Ardley mentioned it in every interview regarding Sam since he first signed. 

If you already have that knowledge, you don't compliment that with an 18 year-old space-filler from a team at the arse end of the league you're trying to get into. 

Call me a mad-man, but come January I think Ardley might have to acknowledge that we don't have enough firepower up front, and certainly not enough goals in the team. 

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Our new owners strike me as patient and careful thinkers, previous owners might have sacked him by now and that strikes me as a breath of fresh air. Results and performances don't always provide the full picture.

Around Christmas for me will be the biggest decider but none of us know if the club would be happy sitting in the National League for another season.

I partly feel the signings has given some fans a bigger expectation.

As did the new owners coming in and wiping all the debts that had been built by the Trews and Hardy.

Regarding Neal Ardley, I will admit that he baffles me some of the time but most other clubs fans would say the same thing about their manager. I do trust that he can deliver, I don't think he's clueless which to me would suggest he doesn't deserve sacking. He knows what players are his best, yet the fixture congestion and other issues take this far out his own hand.

My conclusion is to leave him and the players to get on with things, see how it pans out naturally. A  new manager would bring more unknowns, this is the biggest thing that most younger fans forget. 

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with it being normal to chop and change managers like its no christmas, i do feel this makes people more rash towards calling for a managers head. i also wonder how much the appointment of nigel clough is playing part in more people coming to call for ardleys job.

as a young fan i tire of seeing managers go at the earliest opportunity and would hope notts tries to go on until its deserving.

i am mostly speaking about social media.

there are some fans who call for ardley to go every defeat and i think these people are the first to complain about the clubs instability and lack of progression.

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Stupidity of the highest order.

I don't understand for the life of me why some started calling for Neal Ardley's head after losing 1-0 to Dover.

It's not as if teams ship a lot of goals past ourselves, Maidenhead being the exception but that was a very entertaining game. If more fans could be a natural they will see this themselves that once they scored, they started to rally to overturn the deficit.

I am afraid there's a lot of muppets out there.

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20 hours ago, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:

It was tongue in cheek, but I admit it was an exaggeration.

Yes, I got that. Sam seems more useful than Gomis though, I am interested to see what he's like fit.

Supposedly he can play out wide.

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I don't get the argument when some say supporters are following Neal Ardley blindly, he's not the worst manager Notts have had, not by far and I do feel we're lucky to have him.

I think the majority get that the club are still in transition.

Notts has adapted to life in the Non League but it's not predictable, it isn't easy and the only managers that get promotion from this have something about them which most don't have about them. I think Ardley for the most part has this, he's enjoyed promotion and he's still a young manager in truth.

I'm not suggesting this as an excuse but I do feel it's worth pointing out that AFC Wimbledon is the only other club he's managed.

Personally I do feel some fans are quick to call for the managers head, especially after other local clubs make a managerial change but its not like buying a new phone or upgrading. You have no idea what you will end up with.

Before people suggest he needs to go, they should realistically think about who might be able to replace him.

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Nobody has outright called for Neal Ardley to go? That surprised me.

I don't get the concerns, most will know its early doors and it takes time for Notts to settle. Considering everything happening in the world, football seems the least important but I do not see danger of relegation.

Progress some times requires a step back, in order to move forward.

Sticking with a manager for a change would be nice.

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I must be one of the clowns / muppets / sad single blokes / knee-jerk reactionaries that people have mentioned, because I think that sticking with Neal Ardley is a big mistake.  I lost any confidence I had in him when we were stuffed at home by Newport in the relegation season, and would have shown him the door after the final whistle blew at Swindon on 4th May 2019 and our relegation was confirmed.  I know there were many problems in that season, but I don't think his task of finishing above just two other clubs was a difficult one, especially with the backing Hardy gave him in the January transfer window.  Sol Campbell was appointed at Macclesfield at the same time we got Ardley, and he managed to keep them up despite bigger off-field turmoil and less financial backing.  I see Ardley in the same way as I saw McParland when Munto arrived - someone who just isn't capable of getting the best out of his squad.  Ardley's determination to 'respect the point' has blunted our attacking capabilities.  Our build-up play is so painfully slow we don't create chances or put opponents under sustained pressure the way I believe this squad should.

I fully understand that constantly changing managers isn't a recipe for success, but neither is sticking with a poor one just for the sake of it.

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@Elite_pie Do you publicly call for his head after every defeat? Do you avoid giving the man credit when it's deserved? I don't suppose you do - those are the haters who are defined by each word you mentioned in your opening comment.

1 hour ago, Elite_pie said:

I see Ardley in the same way as I saw McParland when Munto arrived - someone who just isn't capable of getting the best out of his squad.  Ardley's determination to 'respect the point' has blunted our attacking capabilities.  Our build-up play is so painfully slow we don't create chances or put opponents under sustained pressure the way I believe this squad should.

This is the compete opposite to the fans who can't give any rational thought as to why they want Neal Ardley gone, just calling for his head and, generally being a pain in the arse at any given opportunity. This is a well explained post, although I don't think we can blame NA for our relegation from the Football League. I would be inclined to agree, that he should've set his targets of finishing above the drop a bit better.

Yet at the same time I think he knew that the squad didn't have the fight in them, there's not much he can do with such a torn dressing room and the blame for me ultimately falls on Alan Hardy's shoulder.

He should never have appointed Harry Kewell, that was a personal decision by him - not one in the best interest of the clubs.

I think most people would understand where a fans views come from when they can take the time to actually join in a debate, but unfortunately there's many who just repeat nonsense even when Notts are winning.

On 09/11/2020 at 19:04, CliftonMagpie said:

Before people suggest he needs to go, they should realistically think about who might be able to replace him.

^ This for me.

Yet discussing potential replacements at this stage seems quite disrespectful to me.

I think this is why most of the Ardley haters can't come out with a rational opinion, or suggest who could be doing a better job.

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Thanks for posting that @Elite_pie, I was hoping that someone would post the other point of view for a bit of balance. And rest assured, the clowns people are talking about are the characters on social media who rejoice when we lose. Can't be doing with that kind of behaviour.

Obviously I don't agree though! The difference with Macclesfield is that they had won the National League just a few months before, were clearly capable of better and presumably had a much more unified dressing room than us. Ardley inherited a team that didn't even compete and had no work ethic.

It's a dangerous moment though. The summer transfer business currently looks mixed at best, we've thinned out the squad at just the time when a larger squad would have been very handy, the constant postponements are robbing us of any chance to build up momentum and, on top of all that, expectations are high and the pressure is on.

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2 hours ago, liampie said:

i respect the reasoning that @Elite_pie has mentioned and would say that there are fans who are not in favour of neal ardley but the difference with some mentioned on social media is the fact they want the club to fail.

elite does not, thanks for sharing your reply.

I don't bother with social media, and if there really are fans on there who want the club to fail then I won't reconsider, because that notion is beyond me.

While I'm here, another term I'm not comfortable with that has been mentioned on this thread is "Ardley haters".   Neal Ardley is clearly a decent bloke, but I have been critical of him solely because I don't think he's the person to take our club forward.  I find the idea of hatred towards him just bizarre!

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For the record: I wouldn't be sacking Ardley at this point. I think he did a really good job last season under difficult circumstances. However, the worrying trends I've shared in other posts are not something that we have discovered in the last 5 games. They are the same problems we faced last season, and they still haven't been rectified.

If these trends don't change, there will become a point where I don't think they'll ever be rectified and when you get to that point, it's time for change. 

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Social media is usually fully of negativity which is why many try to avoid it. This subject is no exception. 

I understand both sides of the case tbf but I lean more to keeping him. 

My opinion is that we should keep him for the simple fact that most have the misconception that we should have walked this league. But, it's not as simple as that. Before the season started we weren't sure if we'd even have a season, had football not stopped when it did for the lockdown, I believe we could of potentially challenged for the automatic spot as we was on a good run during that time. 

Plus, say we do sack Ardley. Ardley is gone and a new manager comes in say an experienced manager from League one or two. The new manager then goes on and loses his first 8 games and finishes bottom half of the table. What then?

During covid, football is pretty much anyone's game, there's going to be some strange results. We've seen it with like Villa beating Liverpool 7-2. Didn't get chance to see the game on Saturday but from what I've heard it was poor BUT we had a few weeks without football due to players testing positive. Before that we were on a good run and the game we lost against Maidenhead we had a couple of the starting 11 missing for positive results. 

Just think this time last year, how we started the season and how we ended it.

But, on the other hand of the argument it can sometimes be understandable when you see the tactics he uses in certain games that just doesn't seem to work it often feels like he's forcing it to work when it never was going to. 

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