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On 02/12/2021 at 13:43, Fozzy said:
Europe returning to Totalitarianism...….

Certain occupations should be mandatory, but to remove freedom of choice across the board would be unbelievable.

The German Thatcher doesn't really have any say over this. In Germany, the powers that be want to do it - get vaccinated or get fined. Not sure what would happen if people didn't pay their fines - there won't be any forced vaccinations, so how many people can you drag through court at the same time? Apart from the logistics of it I'm not overly keen on the idea, but during a pandemic the choices you make are not just your own - they affect a LOT of other people. 

It would be easiest if people just got jabbed, as unvaccinated people make up the thumping majority of ICU patients right now. Unfortunately, here in Germany there is a pronounced tendency for people to think they know better than the experts. 

I got boostered at the weekend. Felt slightly hungover the next day but it was worth it. 

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53 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said:

Here in Germany there is a pronounced tendency for people to think they know better than the experts. 

This is happening across the world, unfortunately.

Have you seen South Park: Post COVID?

Whereas I don't feel anybody should be forced to have a vaccine, there are ways to reason with the majority of people.

When the UK media started scaremongering about the new strain (I don't think this helps in the long term), I noticed reports mentioned that a surge from new people taking their first jab had come as a result. However, when news outlets like Nottingham Post falsely report the numbers - then retract their report, based on the fact they said Nottingham had two cases, despite it being a single case and a student who travelled into Nottingham.

This type of "panic" now, "truth" later just plays into the hands of those who think they know better.

Humanity will always have issues with the voice of reason, doing better for others - instead of just yourself, but there's much that can be done to make this less common.

PS. I don't believe for a second those who haven't had a vaccine are "selfish", but it does seem a lot of those who argue publicly instead of keeping it private are very much appearing to be only thinking of themselves.

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On 02/12/2021 at 13:43, Fozzy said:

Europe returning to Totalitarianism...….

Certain occupations should be mandatory, but to remove freedom of choice across the board would be unbelievable.


What's happening throughout continental Europe with regards to mandating (or quasi-mandating) vaccines is abhorrent and illiberal. Unfortunately the people who consider themselves 'liberal' are the ones who are for this type of government enforcement. 

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To try and get a judge on the pandemic and how it evolves it is necessary to filter out the extremes. The extreme to one-side is the anti-vaccine, 'covid doesn't exist', government conspiracy types. On the other side is the place for the hysterical; lockdown forever, social distancing forever, gross over-estimation and exaggeration of hospitalisation/death forecasts. 

 

I follow John Campbell on Youtube. He looks at the situation in the UK and globally, presenting stats and offering his opinion. He is quite level-headed and practical about things:

https://www.youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching

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I also follow John Campbell @Super_Danny_Allsopp and find his videos to be excellent viewing, no mass hysteria, he just tries to deal with the data available.

 

I think that David Schneider doesn't realise that the most densely populated part of Russia is in Europe 🙄. Obviously didn't get a very good grade in Geography.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fozzy said:

I also follow John Campbell @Super_Danny_Allsopp and find his videos to be excellent viewing, no mass hysteria, he just tries to deal with the data available.

 

I think that David Schneider doesn't realise that the most densely populated part of Russia is in Europe 🙄. Obviously didn't get a very good grade in Geography.

 

 

One look at David Schneider's twitter and you can see the type of account. Boring, repeated attacks on Boris Johnson with any weapon they can get hold of (Covid and Brexit the most common).

I'm no fan of Boris but these type of accounts and people are generally unhelpful. You imagine David Schneider stood in the middle of a field, in the countryside, by himself, with a mask on, 'to save the NHS'. 

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On 20/01/2022 at 10:48, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:


What's happening throughout continental Europe with regards to mandating (or quasi-mandating) vaccines is abhorrent and illiberal. Unfortunately the people who consider themselves 'liberal' are the ones who are for this type of government enforcement. 

I totally agree. I'm really frustrated by the lack of solidarity shown by the anti-vaccine crowd, but making vaccinations compulsory is pure political stupidity and will likely be counterproductive. There seems to be a fair chance that such a mandate will breach the German constitution and be overturned again. If not, how will it be enforced? They've already ruled out physically taking people for their jabs (what a thought...), so we're left with fines. It's not hard to foresee a coordinated non-payment campaign. And then what?

Instead of patiently explaining why having the jab is a good idea (the stats back this up convincingly), the powers that be have switched to punishment mode, and this has contributed to two camps forming. People now feel a tribal loyalty to their camp. It's no longer just a question of convincing people that the jabs work - they now have to switch sides. The government has helped make this happen.

Also, we seem to be heading towards a situation where we'll be needing boosters every few months until something longer lasting appears. There's a real risk that the number of people having the booster will drop off over time, and the government surrendering its moral authority won't help.

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On 26/01/2022 at 22:03, DangerousSausage said:

I totally agree. I'm really frustrated by the lack of solidarity shown by the anti-vaccine crowd, but making vaccinations compulsory is pure political stupidity and will likely be counterproductive. There seems to be a fair chance that such a mandate will breach the German constitution and be overturned again. If not, how will it be enforced? They've already ruled out physically taking people for their jabs (what a thought...), so we're left with fines. It's not hard to foresee a coordinated non-payment campaign. And then what?

Instead of patiently explaining why having the jab is a good idea (the stats back this up convincingly), the powers that be have switched to punishment mode, and this has contributed to two camps forming. People now feel a tribal loyalty to their camp. It's no longer just a question of convincing people that the jabs work - they now have to switch sides. The government has helped make this happen.

Also, we seem to be heading towards a situation where we'll be needing boosters every few months until something longer lasting appears. There's a real risk that the number of people having the booster will drop off over time, and the government surrendering its moral authority won't help.

Yup. Know a few people personally that are unhappy with the way the vaccines are being pushed (me too) and that's their (initial) reason for not getting one. The enforcement thereafter has then pushed them further down the rabbit hole and now they are verging on conspiracy-land, even though some of the negatives/concerns about the vaccine are true, a lot of the claims are nonsense. 


I know a few countries will and are trying to enforce it at workplaces. No jab = no job. That will coerce a few to get it, but not a lot. Plus, the freedoms it violates and the precedence it sets are terrible. It's a strong indication that the government can take your job if you don't sign up to something they are pushing. Vaccine today, but what tomorrow? Dangerous. 

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17 hours ago, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:

Same account encouraging the panic-buying:

image.png

Founder is non other than the fox murderer in chief Jolyon Maugham. I think we already know where his loyalties are, so hardly an unbiased source of information.

 

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15 minutes ago, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:

I'm not sure who that is but a lot of these accounts seem to have 'Greta Thunberg syndrome'; that is, they complain, moan and squeal about everything - but offer 0 solutions on anything. 

He is a barrister who hated the Brexit result so launched several legal objections against it and the vote leave campaign whilst championing the Peoples Vote. He has been an anti government campaigner since and launched several more court cases against them over the pandemic.

He is renowned for admitting that he killed a fox in his back garden with a baseball bat.

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