Dumbarton have gone into administration.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

Dumbarton have gone into administration and have incured a 15 points penalty. They are now bottom of league one.

What is happening to Scottish football?

Dumbarton in administration: Police 'look into some transactions'

WWW.BBC.COM

---

Police confirm they are investigating a report of suspected fraud in relation...

 

[super_ram]

I feel sorry for the fans.Who's next?

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

More info. Club Statement.

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

Police investigation ongoing into 'suspected fraud' at Dumbarton FC

WWW.HERALDSCOTLAND.COM

---

Police Scotland have confirmed there is a probe underway into reported fraudulent activity at Dumbarton FC.

In hindsight, should have sold the land against a bank guarantee...but difficult as both sides of transaction, seems to be a "related party"

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

A go fund me page was set up to help Dumbarton. It's already raised over £60k

 

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

On 22/11/2024 at 11:38, Robbie said:

Dumbarton have gone into administration and have incured a 15 points penalty. They are now bottom of league one.

What is happening to Scottish football?

Dumbarton in administration: Police 'look into some transactions'

WWW.BBC.COM

---

Police confirm they are investigating a report of suspected fraud in relation...

 

Chronic poor funding and a lack of FA support. The league stagnates as the promotion system is so hard to break into the Scottish league system, meaning no fresh blood in the divisions, and thus dwindling fan numbers and support. unless you're one of the big three.

 

Very sad to see but until Scottish FA does an overhaul of the promotion system its one that will be repeated i fear.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow It is sad to see. But I am surprised that a rich potential owner hasn't come in to own teams like Hibernian & Heart of Midlothian who are based in the Capital.

Surely teams like those two, plus Aberdeen & the Dundee clubs have potential for growth?

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

@Robbie unfortunately with the rangers and celtic domination up here, *and aberdeen occassionally* the growth is really only limited to 3/4th place of the scot prem and even thats with considerable individual investment. hard to compete when the money's not there unfortunately. I often support a local side in the West of Scotland FL, and even though they're on a good run, ultimately the chance of leaving the league and moving up is hindered by the round robin promotion rules & relegation playoff. fix that and you fix scottish football in my humble opinion.

 

Something similar to what we have in England is better, i know we all curse the national league and the two promo places, but it beats having to do relegation playoffs against established league 2 sides.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow Is there a difference in distribution of tv monies, between bottom division of Scottish Leagues and the Highland / Lowland League?

Countries like Argentina were structured with mathematical coefficients to help stop the "old school" clubs being relegated.

Bring back Third Lanark!

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

1 minute ago, Piethagoram said:

@BiggestPieInGlasgow Is there a difference in distribution of tv monies, between bottom division of Scottish Leagues and the Highland / Lowland League?

Countries like Argentina were structured with mathematical coefficients to help stop the "old school" clubs being relegated.

Bring back Third Lanark!

Bold of you to think HL/LL leagues are televised

In terms of tv money I don't believe we're talking a lot, happy to be corrected on that though!

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow Ooops, not very well expressed by me

What I was trying to infer, was the bottom of the Scottish Leagues may get a distribution of tv monies but Highland/Lowland Leagues do not.

Also writing in terms of ignorance on whether there are ground stadium criteria for clubs from Highland / Lowland leagues that need to be met?

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

10 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

@BiggestPieInGlasgow Ooops, not very well expressed by me

What I was trying to infer, was the bottom of the Scottish Leagues may get a distribution of tv monies but Highland/Lowland Leagues do not.

Also writing in terms of ignorance on whether there are ground stadium criteria for clubs from Highland / Lowland leagues that need to be met?

There are licences, ground requirements etc yeah, even at the lower leagues, last years winner of the WoSFL could not advance due to licencing and ground restrictions. I'm unsure of any funding etc available for promotees but you seldom see many matches on tv that aren't rangers celtic if i'm honest, there's not a lot of money floating around at all, which in turn lowers the standard of football and in turn means the academy graduates prefer to go down south. its a vicious cycle! 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgowSo how would you like the Scottish league pyramid to look like. Would you like to see less divisions with more teams in each league?

What about a cap on transfers, & a limit on players wages. How can the leagues be made more equal to reduce the dominance of the old firm?

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

21 minutes ago, Robbie said:

@BiggestPieInGlasgowSo how would you like the Scottish league pyramid to look like. Would you like to see less divisions with more teams in each league?

What about a cap on transfers, & a limit on players wages. How can the leagues be made more equal to reduce the dominance of the old firm?

largely similar to how it looks now, i think the layout is actually not terrible, its a bit regionalised early which is a bit of an issue but geographically i think HL/LL needs to remain, I would overhaul the promotion/relegation process.

Feeder leagues would need reorganised but thats a long-term job.

Promotion wise, I'd have one promotion slot each in HL/LL, & feeder leagues

one playoff promotion slot in each.

Relegation wise, bottom four, drop to their respective leagues [HL/LL]

remaining promotion relegation would be okay. 

 

In terms of breaking the old firm domination, i think the only way is to change the co-efficient spots, its the european money that makes the old firm unreachable by the remaining teams in the prem, perhaps an exclusion from the scottish cup would be best for those two teams just until the scales are balanced.

Once the european money begins to dry up/go to other teams (e.g. dundee, motherwell, st mirren) that gives them opportunities to challenge for the title.

unfortunately its all academic unfortunately, in Glasgow youre either green or blue and ultimately that'll never change. but i think fixing the league system is an easier step change to create more competitiveness.

 

EDIT: to answer your questions; a transfer cap, wage cap would, in my opinion, simply drive clubs into administration, The large Japanese contingent at Celtic for instance brings a lot of ticket sales and merchandise sales, in my opinion it would prevent obtaining these "celebrity" players etc.

Edited November 23 by BiggestPieInGlasgow
answer questions

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow that's a nice reply thanks.

Seems a reasonable plan you have there.

It seems to be a good idea to exclude the old firm from the Scottish Cup. It would give other clubs a chance to qualify for Europe. I'm sure in the early rounds the old firm field weakened teams anyway just like they do in England.

I've always advocated that the top four English PL clubs, sometimes five, that qualify for the Champions league should be excluded from the following year's FA Cup.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow

Just wondered what people thought in Scotland about the crowdfunding to help Dumbarton.

Personally I think it is a good thing but I have seen some dissenters on social media.

I wonder if a solution would be for more 50%+1 fan owned clubs is the answer?

Crowd funding can only be a temporary measure.

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

8 minutes ago, Robbie said:

@BiggestPieInGlasgow

Just wondered what people thought in Scotland about the crowdfunding to help Dumbarton.

Personally I think it is a good thing but I have seen some dissenters on social media.

I wonder if a solution would be for more 50%+1 fan owned clubs is the answer?

Crowd funding can only be a temporary measure.

my personal thoughts on clubs in administrations are:

Point deductions REALLY don't help, they only punish fans, and dedicated staff who actually give a damn where they finish the season, that ties in with my personal thoughts on crowdfunding, as you've said there Robbie, it only really helps if the club falls into a "fan trust" which gives fans the power to actually manage their club. and this is a situation that highlights that, the dissenters in this particular situation in my eyes have a point, its a get out of jail free card for years of mismanagement.

 

I know this is a controversial POV but i'm a keen supporter in the previous governments proposal to set up a new Football Regulator, i think reckless and malicious owners have for too long ran unchecked; even in our mutual beloved Magpies; we are extremely lucky to have the owners we have now.

I think the Football Regulator, under the correct guidance and backed by legislation is the answer to prevent the wider issue of reckless and poor stewardship; in the short-term, for clubs like dumbarton, i think they should settle for no less than 100% ownership, fan trust, write this season off and come back next year stronger, payment plans to restructure debts and shed the wage dead weight. 

 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow I agree with you over having an independent football regulator.

My only concern would be to ensure that it is truely independent, & won't be influenced by special interests & big money.

And as you say, points deductions don't help either. All it does is punish the fans.

I hope that Dumbarton can survive in their present form & won't become a phoenix club.

I did a thread a few months back describing the sad demise in 1968 of Glasgow's Third club, Third Lanark.

They never really came back, but there is an amateur club with that name still playing.

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

@Robbie the club I support up here is a phoenix club; a very similar situation to the sad franchise F.C. of Dons.

Now one plays in the Scottish Championship, the other (phoenix) plays in the WoSFL, very sad for everyone involved.

agree with what you say re; true independence, hoping the fact its a civil service department should increase the chances of impartiality, lots of roadblocks i foresee already, one big one being the different challenges of governing the NIFL, SFL, EFL & CLs. And an additional relating to scottish independence, will they insist on devolved powers, which will basically make it toothless?

Far too many hypotheticals but i'm optimistic that at least as far as Dumbarton are concerned, this too shall pass 

[liampie]

is the go fund me donation actually going to help them? i think its great when people and teams come together, if afc wimbledon can get a whole new pitch from a small area being damaged its good to know a clubs actual future is secure but it does make me wonder how long it would last before its repeated.

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

@liampie short term? absolutely, it'll pay the staff wages and prevent further debt build-up, and subsequent point deductions which will cripple the club further.

long term, probably not. I don't know the exact figure of their current debt but I fear if it was only 80k (current figure of the gofundme) there would be other avenues instead of administration.

 

EDIT: adding gofundme here as it hasn't been posted yet, in case any Magpies are feeling generous: 

The fighting fund for Dumbarton FC - Save our Sons (SOS), organized by cameron watson

WWW.GOFUNDME.COM

---

Support the fighting fund to save our club. Update Th… cameron watson needs your support for The fighting fund for Dumbarton FC - Save our Sons (SOS)

 

Edited November 24 by BiggestPieInGlasgow
adding links

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

Nice one @BiggestPieInGlasgow. I've seen donors from other clubs pitching in to help out. Nice to see it over £82k now. 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@BiggestPieInGlasgow I see Dumbarton have now raised nearly £95k from their go fund me page. Any more news from up there about their immediate future. I see they lost today.

[BiggestPieInGlasgow]

@Robbie Stenhousemuir are top of the league so an expected defeat I'd say, in terms of immediate future they've had no shortage of offers according to the administrators.

The MSP is pushing for a supporter/community ownership which I hope will come to fruition. in short term however they appear to be largely stable; the club only has ~20 staff so 100k should ensure their job security at least until the end of the season. There does seem to be an expectation that they will drop this season however, being 6 points currently behind a team thats currently in a bit of form.

Question remains though as to whether a community trust can afford to pay the price that would be required.

Unclear times ahead, but hopefully they can reach a resolution soon.