IS - serious topic.

[Feral Fox]

Maybe not a conversation for Super_Pie...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are peoples thoughts on the recent resurgence of AQ under their new Caliphate?

Middle Eastern politics has always been a big interest of mine and the current situation is no surprise.

What is more of a surprise to me is the way the Western media is portraying this as an 'abduct and behead westerners group.' 

They have been pushing the hard line Sunni idea for a while now. Shia have been killed in their thousands and nobody blinked an eyelid over here or he US.

Suddenly a few Westerners are abducted and dealt with in the same way and it is major news.

 

Don't misinterpret me here.

Their actions are vile and wrong. Indiscriminate and targetted killings are not acceptable in any society, but surely the Western Governments need to restrict travel for their citizens to countries like these until the home troops of the Middle East can be trained to deal with the pressure.

[liampie]

killing people keeps the circle going and reasoning to spread hatred, they should leave it. america can do the work, tho it should be the nations nearby.

[Chris]

Cop-out answer, I don't like any types of war. If they are a must, I really believe that it should be down to the actual nation it effects to stand up. The beheading stories upset me, as it does when I hear about locals being killed.

I'm not sure how they can stop the idiots, it's likely to never happen.

Yet the press make it worse by promoting it, all in aid to get peoples opinions to swing with the politics and create a situation where people feel it's forced to take action. I personally think if it wasn't made a big deal, it would calm down. The captures are attention seekers, they're sick and evil people. Nothing will change, they can blow areas where alleged groups live and a few weeks/months down the line they will be replaced by others, quite possibly family members of victims killed by mistake.

It's all pure hatred!

[Feral Fox]

I don't think it is a cop out answer Joe, but the real problem is it a war as such anyways? The fighting will be done purely on Syrian and Iraq territory. How ever many headlines the IS get, they will never be a serious threat to any of the countries who are all blowing their stacks.

Anyone who goes into those sorts or territories with the aim to help people are genuinely caring people, but also very naive. No disrespect to Alan Henning for example. However much the compassionate side of you says you want to help, there is a 99% chance it will turn out badly for you. Not condoning it, but stating a fact. Unfortunately for his family I think the writing is on the wall, or probably even been written by now.

 

The issue is that this has been going on since day dot. Religion always has been used in this way and it makes you wonder if the World would be a different place if the idea had never been come up with in the first place.

 

Saw a video a few days ago on the net.

 

3 guys driving 3 flatbeds fast along the motorway in Iraq. These vehicles were doing some speed. A humvee with 4 'gentlemen' in, stood on the side of the road flagging them down.

Surely at that point you think stuff that for a game of marbles. Even if they pull out the usual ak47's the truck is big and ugly enough to keep moving.

Unfortunately they took the polite option and pulled up. Five minutes later the usual Allahu Akbar was being shouted and you can guess the rest. Why? Because when they were being questioned by the gentlemen they did't answer the correct amount of number of prays to do in the morning.

The mobile phone allows the idiots to film all of this and put it up for the world to see.

 

Did this hourly occurrence make it to the BBC or Sky News? no...

[upthepies]

I am afraid I turn over when this comes onto my tv or radio, I have not got the time to listen to it.

All terrorists should be found and hung, not shot.

[Northants Pie]

I don't think it is a cop out answer Joe, but the real problem is it a war as such anyways? The fighting will be done purely on Syrian and Iraq territory. How ever many headlines the IS get, they will never be a serious threat to any of the countries who are all blowing their stacks.

Anyone who goes into those sorts or territories with the aim to help people are genuinely caring people, but also very naive. No disrespect to Alan Henning for example. However much the compassionate side of you says you want to help, there is a 99% chance it will turn out badly for you. Not condoning it, but stating a fact. Unfortunately for his family I think the writing is on the wall, or probably even been written by now.

 

The issue is that this has been going on since day dot. Religion always has been used in this way and it makes you wonder if the World would be a different place if the idea had never been come up with in the first place.

 

Saw a video a few days ago on the net.

 

3 guys driving 3 flatbeds fast along the motorway in Iraq. These vehicles were doing some speed. A humvee with 4 'gentlemen' in, stood on the side of the road flagging them down.

Surely at that point you think stuff that for a game of marbles. Even if they pull out the usual ak47's the truck is big and ugly enough to keep moving.

Unfortunately they took the polite option and pulled up. Five minutes later the usual Allahu Akbar was being shouted and you can guess the rest. Why? Because when they were being questioned by the gentlemen they did't answer the correct amount of number of prays to do in the morning.

The mobile phone allows the idiots to film all of this and put it up for the world to see.

 

Did this hourly occurrence make it to the BBC or Sky News? no...

Whilst I agree with the most part of what you say I think it is a little naive to say that they aren't a serious threat to a country like ours, yes they don't appear to have any of the 21st war technology like we do but they are getting their weapons from somewhere and they are currently considered the richest terrorist group of all time with their wealth growing by an estimated £1.6 million a day and it won't take them long to accrue enough willing fighters to commit a seriously heinous crime against more than a single person in any given country.

 

Having said all of that I still believe the real reason that the US & UK governments are in such a fluster about it, is so that they can right a wrong on their behalf from previous disputes in this region when they were training these radical groups to overthrow another dictator etc that disagreed with the western way of life

[Chris]

The media are finding many ways to string this out, anyone noticed how many "unimportant" people they're interviewing for opinions, which as a viewer of the news gives us absolutely no insight to the actual decision?

This might just be me!

The radio have down a piece of a local MP, I actually found it to be interesting. He spoke about why he's saying "no" and using his vote to keep clear, however I have the feeling the majority will sway yes. I'd personally leave it to America, I don't see how our involvement will change anything. There's enough support without us getting involved, at least if we don't - we can say we didn't keep this circle going.

People will be kidnapped and the amount of murders will increase! Perhaps even innocent people being bombed!

[Northants Pie]

Whilst we have our own equivalent of IS running all of the major political parties in this country we will always do what America wants as America is not only a guaranteed income stream for the w4nkers in charge it is also their retirement village

[Feral Fox]

Whilst I agree with the most part of what you say I think it is a little naive to say that they aren't a serious threat to a country like ours, yes they don't appear to have any of the 21st war technology like we do but they are getting their weapons from somewhere and they are currently considered the richest terrorist group of all time with their wealth growing by an estimated £1.6 million a day and it won't take them long to accrue enough willing fighters to commit a seriously heinous crime against more than a single person in any given country.

 

Having said all of that I still believe the real reason that the US & UK governments are in such a fluster about it, is so that they can right a wrong on their behalf from previous disputes in this region when they were training these radical groups to overthrow another dictator etc that disagreed with the western way of life

Agreed. Maybe I should have put immediate threat. The money they are earning from oil sales per day is stupid. The other side of this imo, only occurs if the middle eastern countries don't deal with the internal problems these guys are causing. If left to fester or rely on others to wade in, the Caliphate may just get a little stronger and wiser and move out of the shock westerners tactics and move their forces into a more solid army sweeping through leaving destruction in their wake.

 

Money doesn't equal everything though.

Look back at Saddam, all money and bluster. USA and us march in to find...all money and bluster nothing more, nothing less. An it was serious money found there. Alot more than most know. My Uncle was the first American to enter Saddams Palace in Baghdad and there alone (not disclosed publicly at the time I may add) was 40 million US dollars in his strong room alone, not counting the gold there as well. (strange how the hated US have the strongest and most valuable currency apart from Gold! when it comes to Middle Eastern 'baddies'.

On the funny side my uncle was the first out as well as after they completed their initial sweep he fell down the grand staircase leading to the courtyard and broke his leg!!! He wont mind me putting that on here as football to him is a game with an egg shaped ball and lots of headgear and shoulder pads! 

[Northants Pie]

Agreed. Maybe I should have put immediate threat. The money they are earning from oil sales per day is stupid. The other side of this imo, only occurs if the middle eastern countries don't deal with the internal problems these guys are causing. If left to fester or rely on others to wade in, the Caliphate may just get a little stronger and wiser and move out of the shock westerners tactics and move their forces into a more solid army sweeping through leaving destruction in their wake.

 

Money doesn't equal everything though.

Look back at Saddam, all money and bluster. USA and us march in to find...all money and bluster nothing more, nothing less. An it was serious money found there. Alot more than most know. My Uncle was the first American to enter Saddams Palace in Baghdad and there alone (not disclosed publicly at the time I may add) was 40 million US dollars in his strong room alone, not counting the gold there as well. (strange how the hated US have the strongest and most valuable currency apart from Gold! when it comes to Middle Eastern 'baddies'.

On the funny side my uncle was the first out as well as after they completed their initial sweep he fell down the grand staircase leading to the courtyard and broke his leg!!! He wont mind me putting that on here as football to him is a game with an egg shaped ball and lots of headgear and shoulder pads! 

 

I couldn't agree more about the problem being left to fester and then becoming what we are faced with today and more alarmingly what we could be faced with tomorrow, for me though they (being the oil rich countries) have us by the family allowance as we are so dependent on oil for nearly everything that we do, that we will always always step in & sort the latest issue out which happens to be the problem that the radical extremists have with the US & UK, the quicker we can move away from oil dependency the better, that's the one thing those prats in Brussels have had right all along.

 

Wow you must have had some really interesting conversations with him & I don't mean about 'soccer'....... 

[Feral Fox]

Lots of good conversations, but he is from across the pond so everything is bigger and better there to hear him speak.

[Feral Fox]

One thing I do know regardless of political opinions here, the USA do value the military support given by the UK. Their military machine see the UK as the only relible source of equipment and troops worth fighting along side of.

[william1984]

i totally agree with us going in and dealing with the idiots that join i.s i think its only a matter of time before something happens over here and i for one hope it gets stopped before it happens.

its already happened in america where a guy tried converting people 2 islam then beheaded a co worker its amazing just how many funny looks i get when out wearing my help the heroes shirt.

[Joe Jones]

It seems that IS have made the most of the power vacuum in Iraq since the 2003 war, as well as the ongoing fighting in Syria in the last few years, to grow and grow to the level they are at now.

 

Sounds very similar to what happened in Afghanistan during the Cold War - the Afghan Mujahideen were our enemy's enemy, we aided them, then they turned their guns against us. This time, we have helped the "rebels" fight and/or defeat their enemies - Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad - and, from the ashes of their overthrown (or in the latter's case, destabilised) despotic regimes, Islamic extremism arises and ends up in the loss of Western lives.

 

Since we made such a mess of things in the first place, I support military action in the Middle East to try and eradicate the problem that our governments have helped to create. But we need to learn lessons - sometimes it's best not to screw with the general order of things.

[Chris]

Since we made such a mess of things in the first place, I support military action in the Middle East to try and eradicate the problem that our governments have helped to create. But we need to learn lessons - sometimes it's best not to screw with the general order of things.

How does this work then?

It doesn't solve anything, it just *isses off more people and encourages them to get involved in terrorism. Really, countries should remove the problem themselves, at least if nations like Iraq, Jordan etc took care of their own people - Terrorists wouldn't blame us!

Us tackling the problem just keeps the circle going in my opinion.

[Joe Jones]

Well, IS need removing. They've already spilled American, British and French blood (apologies if I'm missing any other nationalities), and risk seriously destabilising the region, not to mention the carnage they've caused.

 

I agree, as much as it pains me to see suffering in so many territories and nations worldwide, we caused the mess in Iraq and, to a certain degree, Syria, which is manifesting itself today through IS. Judging by the rhetoric used by the likes of Cameron and the landslide vote in the House of Commons to get involved, not to mention fellow Arab states also intervening, IS are a plague that need stopping.

 

On the other hand, however, had we never gone into Iraq and removed Saddam who, as odious as he was, actually maintained a degree of stability in the country, i doubt IS would have expanded into the force we see today. Likewise, I celebrated Gaddafi's removal in Libya, but has the country actually come good since then? Not at all, if anything it's got worse.

 

God, I really am sounding like Henry Kissinger here, but I guess that international relations really is a case of the lesser of however many evils.

[Feral Fox]

Overall, most agree that the IS need wiping from the face off the Earth, the issue becomes more emotive when deciding how to deal with them. Playing serious devils advocate here...Success for the IS. Their goal create an Islamic Caliphate to be feared by all. Real goal, create havoc and hoover up as much cash during the process and cause political turmoil in the Western Countries. In real terms, there have been far more Jordanian, Syrian and Iraqi blood split that any Western Country so it really needs to be an all or nothing imo.

 

They have found he cash cow with the captured oil wells.

 

They have the political carnage they needed to propel their 'fight' to another level.

 

Two choices. Everyone wade in and come up with some sort of future settlement for ALL the area maybe through the Arab League so the plan is there, but the fulfilment of it is left to the countries themselves.

 

Keep out and let the IS run its course. I'm personally not convinced that it will be able to act as a future threat to Western Countries, but I take more of an interest in the Arab Nations than most and the threat there is real and significant.

 

When Saddam fell ( and I agree with @Joe Jones that how ever warped and 'bad' Saddam was he had the foresight to maintain security in his borders.) the chance of the millennia was left begging. Lets hope the participating countries can work together to move forwards and stop innocents losing their lives over nothing more than a warped interpretation of a Holy Document,

[Feral Fox]

Unfortunately while enjoying reading  Tony H account my news app flashed. Never nice when predictions like that come true, but IS has killed Alan Henning. 

[Chris]

Unfortunately while enjoying reading  Tony H account my news app flashed. Never nice when predictions like that come true, but IS has killed Alan Henning. 

I'm deeply saddened to learn this, yet I did always think it was likely to be the case.

It's just not right, they don't "believe" his got hidden motives. For them it's just an excuse to kill a victim and keep the circle going, all IS care about is making a sick point. They don't care about anything other than themselves and I am very annoyed! Terrorists are mindless people, with no desire but to spread evil and hatred amoung our world.

Don't we have enough of this already? Especially with the murder of Alice Gross??

[Feral Fox]

I'm deeply saddened to learn this, yet I did always think it was likely to be the case.

It's just not right, they don't "believe" his got hidden motives. For them it's just an excuse to kill a victim and keep the circle going, all IS care about is making a sick point. They don't care about anything other than themselves and I am very annoyed! Terrorists are mindless people, with no desire but to spread evil and hatred amoung our world.

Don't we have enough of this already? Especially with the murder of Alice Gross??

Unfortunately the world is a very dark and gloomy place. It does make you wonder sometimes where it all went wrong, then again, was it ever right? History shows us the never ending circle of violence on violence goes back to day dot. There isn't many differences now to 3000 years ago, apart from the tech.

[Chris]

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Ug6M0bICs

[Fan of Big Tone]

If that video is what I think it is I don't particularly want to see it and I'm surprised it's been put on here.

I haven't played it so please tell me I am wrong someone.

[Chris]

If that video is what I think it is I don't particularly want to see it and I'm surprised it's been put on here.

I haven't played it so please tell me I am wrong someone.

It's just a guy telling a conspiracy story and his thoughts on it, nothing graphical.

[liampie]

i doubt joe would share anything which was violent or sick, esp with super pie around.

[liampie]

i dont know what to make of the video, it sort of annoys me because its playing what happened down by claiming its probably fake.