- Comment on the Richard Montague interview here
- Who should be recruited in January? Read this excellent recruitment doc from member ARLukomski
- PON member Robbie has highlighted a tough run of fixtures for the Magpies in December, do you have any thoughts on this?⚽
- Former Notts head coach Luke Williams is hoping to reunite with goalscorer Macaulay Langstaff at Peterborough United.
- 👋🏻 Welcome the newest members of Pride of Nottingham! Drop by and say hello, it’s always great to see fresh faces joining the community. 🫱🏼🫲🏼
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Everything posted by Chris
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The Future Of The Game At Low League Level
I made it all the way through, I enjoy your entries. (I don't just say it) The Football League and the FA, do so much damage to our sport. They take aspects from the fans, expect us to give and it's the fans who pay. Really, without fans the sport wouldn't be marketable. People in the terraces, at home (watching on tv) or listening where ever on the radio. It takes the whole and the clubs to make a difference, which sadly due to sky we see the lower leagues overlooked. Awhile back I used to watch Sunday league football, I've also coached during my school years and I'd pay to watch this now. More needs to be done to make sure, we get money at the lowest levels to sustain a brighter future. It's hard, I can imagine and when times are hard sadly it's the lower league teams who tend to struggle and cease. Just like in the Football League, where we see sides attracted to over-spending to reach the 'dream'. Yet for me, It shouldn't be like this. I recall the fans from other clubs attending our game, it wasn't known if we would survive and in a remarkable sign of respect opposition fans traveled to help our club. You're right, football isn't really a family. Yet, we as a club are. It's taken myself many years to realize that I've held myself back and the loss of my grandfather wasn't something I had to keep within myself. I'm thankful to be supporter of a club like Notts County
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Redevelopment of Meadow Lane
Nottingham City council eventually leased a plot of land to Notts and a new home stadium was quickly erected. The stadium, 'Meadow Lane', would become the centre of football within Nottingham, as the ground en-counted historic moments, such as the World War II bombing, many matches and legends of the game. Moving onto the early 1990's then Chairman, Derek Pavis, set about plans to modernise the stadium. Over the years, the ground had witnessed a few characteristic additions but largely remained unchanged. After the Bradford City Stadium fire, when sadly 56 deaths occurred, plus over 250 injuries and the Hillsborough disaster, the Taylor report required football clubs to abide by health and safety regulations. This brought about a swift move towards many English football teams being required to modernise their ground. Meadow Lane was subsequently redeveloped in the early 90's.This saw the Meadow Lane End, County Road Stand and Spion Kop demolished and new modern stands replacing the former one's, as the Family Stand (Hayden Green Family Stand), Jimmy Sirrel Stand and the Spion Kop stand were rebuilt in a matter of months. Revamp cost the club an excess of around £5million pounds and a combination of selling strike partners Paul Rideout and Tommy Johnson contributed to the costs. During the close season of 1994, the Main Stand was replaced with the existing Derek Pavis Stand. The stadium is somewhere to be truly proud., it's many fans second 'home' and over the years we've seen other parts receive it's own revamps, such as the Meadow Lane Sports Bar. The whole ground has a 'special' family feel. It's only when you think back into the past, recall the nostalgic memories and look about the redevelopment that you truly the appreciation the feeling. Meadow Lane is also the only ground in Europe, possibly the world where the Chairman has his own personal view. The balcony is a wonderful feature of the stadium, as are many other aspects. My personal favourite being the tree locations, which I believe one will become the home of the Jimmy & Jack statue. I've taken some pictures of the Stadium using my mobile phone, I will share some below and hope to share the album with fans who might be interesting in browsing. -Edit: 28/05/2017 Due to the date in length of time between now and the original date of this publication, the link to the gallery has since experienced but if there's any interest (please do let us know) - I will consider releasing a new gallery of images that I have taken over the years. http://prideofnottingham.co.uk/community/gallery/album/15-/ Pride of Nottingham would like to Thank 'Notts County Football Club' for allowing me to take the pictures.
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Alan Judge heads back to Blackburn
Goodluck to him! Personally when he joined I was surprised, I would have guessed he had other offers then but who knows. He did us proud, all we can ask and I hope his time at our club will pave/play part in his future. I don't think he will forget us! Can't wait to see him back at the Lane, hopefully one day! (when we join him in the championship).
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Meadow Lane
Pictures I've taken of the Stadium.
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Introduction of the F.A. Cup
Our F.A Cup winning squad. COYP!!
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Introduction of the F.A. Cup
Thanks for bringing history to life Super Ram. I liked reading sporting history book as I grew up (as you will know) and it always interested me how the F.A Cup formed, along with the World Cup. Interesting article which I hope people will enjoy and of course share with others. Keep 'em coming!
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Junior Magpie - Harry Buckley
Harry was born 11th of February 2010, and was joined up to the junior magpies two weeks later. He was a proud owner of the football shirt at the same time. We took him to his first match when he was only a few weeks old. The match was against Macclesfield Town, and we won 1-0 (goal by Clapham in 18th minute). Harry was taken to every home game of the season, and a running joke that he was our lucky charm was soon banded about within the family and friends at the club. We also got married at the club in May 2010, which Harry proudly wore his Notts County Football kit and England football boots. As well as this, Mr Trew kindly arranged it so that we could bring Harry to the club, following training to meet players and the manager at the time, Steve Cotterill. He met many players who made a real fuss of him including; Neil Bishop, Ben Davies (shortly before his Derby departure), Lee Hughes, Kasper Schmeichel….But Harry was laughing and giggling away when he met Mike Edwards. Mike kindly spent around 15 minutes talking to us about his family and playing with Harry, so much that he had to be called back to perform his duties. This day is one we will never forget as a family, and Harry still treasures these photographs to this day. While going to the matches, it was wonderful to see Harry grow, and take more of an interest in the matches. It even became apparent he had favourite players. We always sat in the Pavis Stand, and so he would watch the players on the bench warming up, and Craig Westcarr in particular would always getting Harrys attention. Mike Edwards would always wave and usually come over to say ‘Hello’ to Harry during the pre-match warm up. And luckily Harry got to see Notts County get promoted, which he enjoyed at the final home game of the season. We still try to get to matches but unfortunately have not been able to afford it for a season or so. Hopefully we will be able to go to a few more of the games in the 2013-2014 season, and Harry can add many more signatures to his NCFC autograph book. Current Favourite Player; Alan Judge (but he also loved Hughesy) Favourite Chant; Wheelbarrow Song Best highlight of Meadow Lane; Promotion from League Two Pride of Nottingham would like to Thank Vicky and William, Also a big hello to young 'Harry' who we are delighted to feature as a Junior Magpie! If you would like us to feature your little one or child, please get in touch by E-Mail. webmaster(at)prideofnottingham.co.uk - Replace (at) with @
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The Future
Kyle Dixon one of our youths signed a professional deal earlier, so this is quite interesting. The lad did put a lot into the match at Walsall, seems steady and moved into defense (from as it seemed). I think the balance needs to be right but it's not a negative thing, youngsters need players to help mould them. COYP
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Notts County 2 - 2 Coventry City
Brilliant stuff Joe! The game was very lively early on, sort of like pinball and despite no 'real' chances, the game were asking to become calm and it did. Very proud of the lads and support, another amazing day and such a shame it's the last game of the season. We've all been wanting it to come but now it's here, I am sure even those who are unhappy would prefer it to continue a little longer. Hope next season proves us how secure we are! Lets get behind the lads and give our support, push on. Onwards and Upwards! You Pies!
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150 Years of Football
I'm not being biased, although I like these articles. I used to be fairly into history, yet when Mr Thomas became ill and were replaced with Mr Smith it became dull. Football evolution really is an amazing read, I really enjoyed this. Wished I had better time to promote it, although I will don't you worry about that. Thanks
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Q/A with Lynn Lawson
Pride of Nottingham recently asked Lynn Lawson some questions in hope to further raise awareness to such a worthy scheme - Lifeline. This as been a privilege for us, as ideally we would like to help the club. Yesterday we featured an article based on the membership side, this gave a brief insight to how Lifeline started. We hope the questions are interesting and of use to promotional members. Hopefully this will be a gentle push in the right direction, as it would be nice to fill the allocated spaces and reach a PROUD 2,500. Q; How important is it too for the club and fans to have the Lifeline scheme? A: September 15th 1986 the Club held a crisis meeting that drew 1500 supporters to the Astoria night club, funds needed to be found and Lifeline was formed. Now nearly 27 years on, Lifeline continues to plough money into the Club’s coffers and helps the Clubs finances. In 2009 we donated £80,000 to the Club In 2010 we donated £93,000 to the Club In 2011 we donated £110,000 to the Club In 2012 we donated £120,000 to the Club So you can see, the donations are increasing each year, so Lifeline is very important to us. We also pay out weekly to members £1520 in prize money and annually £10,000, a Car and Holiday vouchers. You Have to be ‘in it to Win it’ . Q; Can you tell us how the money raised is spent? A: Generally it helps the Club with running costs, bills, improvements, wages, and equipment. We also make regular donations to local charities, most recently The British Heart Foundation in memory of Joy Sharpe of Hillside Medical. Q; How long have you been handling Lifeline? A: I have been administering Lifeline since 2001, so 12 years now. Q; How is Lifeline comparing member wise in recent years to when it was most popular? A: We currently have 2025 members, the only other time the membership has been higher and to nearly full capacity was in 1986 when it was set up and then it reached nearly 2200. As a members scheme, our maximum membership allows us for 2500. In 2001 when I took over, we had just short of 1200 members. Q; What would be the ultimate achievement for Lifeline? A: To one day reach the maximum membership allowed at 2500 and to one day reach it's 50th Anniversary which of course will be in September 2026!! Fans have a better chance of winning than with the National Lottery and are supporting The World's Oldest Football League Club at the same time, so don't delay join today! It couldn't be easier! This is a follow up to "You Have to be 'in it to Win it" Pride of Nottingham would like to Thank Mrs Lawson for taking the time out to answer our questions. Please be sure to visit the official site to find out more about Lifeline and also to enter your chance of winning Kiwomya’s Lifeline Tickets.
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You Have to be ‘in it to Win it’
On Monday the 15th September 1986, 1,500 supporters packed into the Astoria Ballroom while more fans were locked outside gathered to hear about the financial difficulties the club had found themselves in. The clubs future was threatened with the financial crisis, as then Chairman Jack Dunnett was the only financial support and the club desperately needed to clear debts of over £1.8 Million. It was a direct result of the fans, players and board members support that the Lifeline scheme came into existence with John Mounteney quickly reaching 2,500 members. Lifeline could only be possible with the dedication of any steward, with the fans making sure just how important it is to have something to aid the clubs coffers especially times become hard financially. Notts County has long been established as a family club. The presence of staff members, even to this modern day, and the board make our club feel much different to any other. Lynn Lawson has been administrating Lifeline since 2001, which in 2003 would have played a vital part in saving our club as we once again found ourselves on the brink of administration quite similar to when the scheme was originally started. At the fans forum on Wednesday 3rd April, the entry and all proceedings went to Lifeline. £250 was also donated to the British Heart Foundation in memory of Joy Sharpe who had sadly passed away.On Friday the 12th, I met up with Jurgen who kindly offered me to attend the fans sponsor dinner. Inside the club shop 'Lifeline' was being discussed, I am not a member but I have always been interested. Lynn and Jurgen spoke about it and you could see how much it meant to Lynn and with the right person behind such worthy scheme it can only go forward. I'm going to join, I hope those who aren't members that read this consider it also. Inside our community 'TonyHateley' started a discussion about Lifeline, he had asked if anyone was also a member. He kindly allowed time to answer some questions, along with Kirk Ward (a budding photographer). Q; When did you join Lifeline? Kirk: Joined about 2 years ago TonyHateley: You are testing my memory a bit here and as I have said before it is not good. I've just had a look at my bank statements back to 2007 and I was paying it then but I can't go back any further, so I've certainly been in it since then but I was in it a lot earlier than that but was made redundant in the early 90s and stopped it for a while and then started again when I got my finances back on track so I reckon on the present numbers I have been in probably since 2000 or some thing like that, sorry I can't be more specific. Q; Why did you join Lifeline? Kirk: Because it gives something to the club and also gives me the chance to win prizes at the same time. TonyHateley: The reason I joined is simple I love the club and wanted to help them out whilst at the same time hopefully win a little something myself. Q; Could you tell me some of your highlights during the time you've been a member? Kirk: Highlights has to be winning £100 a few weeks ago. TonyHateley: I have had one win and that was the jackpot £1,000, I remember I was working at the Derbyshire Times Newspaper in Chesterfield at the time and my wife phoned me, I was worried that something was wrong because she didn't ring me normally, when she said the postman had just brought a cheque from Notts County for £1,000 I nearly fell through the floor, I never checked my numbers so it was a great surprise. We used the money to have a great holiday that year. Over the years we have been to some great events organised for Lifeline members, every year they have the Lifeline Gala Night, where there is normally some entertainment and a chance to win £10,000 and a car if your numbers are drawn out. At one such event we bought some raffle tickets and were amazed when we won an Executive Box for a match of our choice for 8 people. We had a great time, I can't remember that match but as soon as people knew I had won I suddenly had lots of friends who wanted to join me. In the end members of my family and two close friends including a Chesterfield fan joined me in the box, I think we won but again memory fails me. Continuing the good luck theme but not related to Lifeline, I always buy a 50-50 ticket at the match and have twice won, once when my son was with me at the time he was a struggling student so I shared it with him, I think it was about £400 he was well pleased but probably spent it all on drink as students do. The second time I was on my own and it was a night match so the win was a lot less about £200 I think but still a lovely surprise and I remember going to claim my prize and they gave me an envelope with cash but I had to wait a while and when I walked back to the car which was parked on Trent Embankment, the crowds had dispersed and it was dark, I was really worried about having this cash and if anyone had followed me I could be mugged. Paranoid or what. To join lifeline please visit the official club website. Lynn Lawson's kindly answered some questions for us, please do keep an eye out for this feature as we are very honoured to have had our questions answered. This will follow shortly but for now please do visit the official website to find more information.
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Notts Alumni - Tony Hateley
I think my grandfather would struggle picking his favourite 5 notts players, all I can say is Tommy Lawton would be number one but he used to tell me stories about Tony Hateley, how he was strong and good at heading the ball. (used to compare him to Tommy) said he could strike the ball very cleanly, which when he did you'd expect him to hit the target. Thanks for the write up Joe P.s Tony, We're glad you enjoyed it!
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Doncaster 0-1 Notts County
Impressive day, one which my little one's will recall fondly I am sure. It was impressive to see fans of both teams getting along and although after the game, some of their fans we're a little mardy/offensive it wouldn't make a bad impression on the day. You accept this unlike their fan coming onto our facebook page (Notts's Official Page) moaning about it. Our supporters were a credit to the club, I didn't see any who were out of line. The lads showed ambition, passion and tried. I think this will be a defining moment when we look back, as I honestly feel it's a day we as a club moved closer to getting back on with 'business'. Well Done Notts, great goal! Excellent report Joe
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Notts County 3-1 Colchester
Despite being present of course, this cements the day for me and so does this. I'm really chuffed that we had something to lift the spirit, they really deserved the win and it were a great day. Thanks for the Match Report buddy
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A day like no other
I had a brilliant time, like I said I wished I had made the most but then again I might have bottled it. Can't wait until the next time No Worries IM, I look forward to your write up. Thanks everyone
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A day like no other
The past couple of days for myself haven't been like any others, it's actually been awhile since I felt this type of excitement. I had been asking the Italian Magpies quite a few times when or if they planned to come over, very much wanted to meet them, and I can now say I have had that pleasure. What an absolute honour for us, to be included and able to share the day is just beyond anything I can write or say. Very surreal! It felt like the whole two days were more than just a gathering, almost family being reunited – Two Hearts and One Soul. I'm not sure I can give this occasion the credit it deserves, yet I am inspired with ideas and so I will be turning this into a couple of blogs also. I think Nottingham/Italy will be hitting the Facebook severs with how many statuses/image uploads have been made (or should I say will be). The day for me and Jake started off by catching the bus into town. We had arranged to meet up with Andy Black at the train station as a couple of the Italian Magpies were travelling down. I felt pretty nervous. I can usually overcome this if I push myself but I think the excitement didn't allow me to do so. I pretty much stayed in the background but was concerned about seeming rude or uninterested, just very overwhelming. We got to near the Broadmarsh bus station and I noticed Andy, Paul, Lindy and Josh walking. I mentioned to Jake they were who we were meeting up with and he kindly reminded me of a time. I shouted 'You Pies' to Lindy in the Broadmarsh shopping centre as they walked out of Wilkos. Paul quickly noticed us, and he said hello and I introduced Jake to the group. I'm sure he must have felt a lot like me, if not worse, though both Paul and Lindy were amazing with him. After meeting up with two travelling Italian Magpies, Max and Phil (His real name isn't Phil), we all walked down to the Jury's Inn where the rest of the group had been staying. Jake by this point was a little more nervous and he was getting a little impatient, as children do. When everyone was together, it was amazing. The bond was interesting, as an outsider to watch, as you could tell instantly it was a special group of friends who all enjoyed the excitement of such an amazing event. A quick tram journey to the City Centre, another short walk to Ye Olde Trip To Jerusalem, several photos taken at this point and a nice look around the pub. The group sat down, we all enjoyed our drinks and the laughter/banter started to come a little more. Jake by this point was playing games with me, at one point he pretended to be Spiderman and insisted I was the bad guy who he was going to beat up. He can get quite hyper if allowed, though he's a credit to me and my wife (very lucky with all 3 of our children). He wanted to put his “Pride of Nottingham” T-Shirt on and was asking if I would be handing out flyers. Jake wanted to hand some to the Italian Magpies, though I didn't really like the idea and I was sure, thanks to the kind work of Giorgio Zunino, that each would know about the site. He quickly came out of his shell, laughing and asking me questions. Andy returned from meeting up with Paolo and his son. Jake by this point was very, very excited about the day ahead and repeatedly mentioned 'Can I say hello to them'. I was already on the verge of doing so myself, however Jakes enthusiastic largely helped and we went across to introduce ourselves. We finished our drinks and then we had another short walk to the Robin Hood statue where we had many photos taken, Jake being a little poser was disappointed as I wouldn't allow him to go into the photos and I asked him to wait so they had one with all the Italian Magpies without myself or him photo bombing. Amazing, I might type this quite a few times but all the group were very kind to Jake (I know he'll be proud of this for years to come). Phil kindly gave Jake his “Juve Scarf” and things like this always makes him very happy, He was very grateful. The journey continued with something Nottingham residents would have wondered what was going on. A large group of Notts County supporters walking to the ground, all very proud and acting as any football fans should – respectful to all. Once at Meadow Lane the event stepped up to a much higher level, 'special' just doesn't give it credit and I'm afraid I can't explain it. Walking onto the pitch with the Italian Magpies – One of our proudest memories. Included as friends and a affiliates. Do they ever stop giving? Such loyal, passionate and amazing people who I wished I had gotten to know much better. I have to say I wished I could have come out my shell a lot more, however I enjoyed it and you can tell that they did. Credit needs to go to Lisa and Andy Black, great hosts and they've introduced the Italian Magpies to the best of Notts County. Lindy, Paul and Josh all credit to the group as-well. The club did fantastic to make this day special, I hope it brings us all closer together. Juventus doesn't owe a single thing, the Italian Magpies travel for the passion and much to their dedication. I hope the day is documented by the club because each visit does deserve to be remembered in a nice way. After all the amazing efforts from many, this was exactly the type of “positive” day the club as been in need of for a very long time. We need things to lift the spirit, fans majority amazing, also very warm and welcoming. People clapping such deserved support! I felt like an imposter and rather feeling I didn't deserve the memory, I still don't but I am thankful. Thank you to everyone who made Jake feel on top of the world, all the warmth and love. I sincerely hope the Italian Magpies had a great time, feel the warmth and love we all gave. If I am not too selfish, I would also like to mention that I dearly hold on to the future and hope to get to know them all much better. Italian Magpies – Dear friends of Notts County Football Club.
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Backing the Black & White
I hope we have a good amount of season tickets purchased, it's the only way we can move forward safely. (stable wise) If we go up in the near future attendances will rise, I'm also happy to say I don't see the team in red being to much of a problem. We may get some back handed compliments in terms of those who can't afford Forest's prices
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Notts County - 1862
Stop fishing for compliments! It's nice when you do, though some of the things I have occasionally do not. Remember what you said in the "Guess Who" topic? Takes time, they'll come and my opinion is as valid as anyone's. LOL
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Notts County - 1862
I wonder the same but from the 50's to 70's, I think none would like the current state as much as they did. It's been ruined a little with Sky and the teams who over spend in order to achieve, I think stability us seems much nicer than over spending. The people who started the craze most likely wouldn't understand and most likely would want to injure the current players. Very violent, I recall the teacher(s) at school in History and P.E mentioning it wasn't uncommon to be killed or be seriously injured. The book of drawn images were pretty disturbing of people playing whilst others struggled on the floor.
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Notts County - 1862
I really believe that a mix of past, present and of course current events will be a great thing. I urge you to keep writing Dad, as I was nervous at first and it's only because of the positive support I feel writing is enjoyable. Pride of Nottingham needs to focus on having creative writers, people with a passion and you do. Hope you're happy with the piece, I am. Than you for your help.
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Backing the Black & White
The survival of any football league team ultimately falls down to it's fans. If the clubs are fortunate to be in a position where they can spend money, usually at our level or the one above, again it's down to the support. As you fall further down the footballing pyramid it's often uncommon to see cash being spent on players, minus the few exceptions. Most clubs make use of wheeling and dealing, free transfers and of course their own youth system. At Notts County we ourselves realize that our own team is mainly built around free transfers, aside from Judge and Boucaud. Top name players naturally attract interest with a team full of stars. The likes of Arsenal, Manchester City and of course Manchester United, among many others no doubt will perhaps fail to worry about the concern of support. When the support is utilized the effects can be noticeable, the combination of passion and dedication can take a team quite far. We've seen many successful cup runs in recent years, I have no doubt it's a result of optimism and something which encouraged our players to play at their peak or perform at a level good enough to warrant such runs. Obviously a lot comes down to pre-match training, coaches and even the players themselves , but without the boost, the support, where would they gain the spring in their steps? Any footballer is hardly going to want to fail, It's about getting the most of them and if this is being failed for any reason, doom and gloom is hardly going to have the desired impact. I've been concerned with the lack of passion for some time. When things are going right, for many, there's still enough for fans to complain about. I can understand a level of disappointment but when do you draw the line? I'm sure we are all passionate people, all wanting the best for the respective clubs we support but what difference can we make? I feel a lot myself. No, we can't change how the players perform, this is down to management and their own desire. Often enough, when we go a goal down, well the passion dies with it. I miss the days when a fan would stand up and start chanting, drawing others into singing as well. We used to be fairly good at bouncing back. The term 'bounce back ability' was something I often heard mentioned. Times during the previous seasons (just not under Paul Ince) I felt confident that we could turn results around. We've been a side that's always been made up of 'team players' and the odd reliable player in the correct area I.E. Lee Hughes. The thing I'm trying to get at is, nothing is possible unless we all work towards the same goals. If we lose 5-0 on Saturday,God I hope we don't now, but if we do, what's the point in allowing ourselves to go on the downward spiral. We expect the players to pick themselves up, even pretend that certain players warrant the abuse they receive, but at the end of the day when are we, as fans, going to do the same? If a player or manager was to swear and verbally abuse you for not backing the club 100% you would probably stop attending games. I can understand the concerns with regards to expense, although I will openly say here that I feel for some it's an excuse to a show a lack of support. It's obviously not always the circumstance but if you find yourself in the situation of not being able to afford something, would you really shout it from off the top of your roof? Really, I praise the club for putting out attractive offers and I hope that fans will consider renewing or purchasing a season ticket. All the revenue gained will no doubt be spent on the club, so if we're to move forward in the right way, it's about trying to support the club as much as we possibly can. As a family, my Wife and I have to choose which games we can attend all together but there's nothing we like more than watching the club as a whole family. If I could go with my family, see the smiles on their faces, and believe me it happens even when we're losing. Well it's a good day out regardless of the result. We've witnessed our team play and have shared a memory together. I made similar comments at the home game against Rotherham United in the cup, it's all about the ups and downs. God forbid if we were to fall on worrying times again, how would we handle this situation again? Life's not about giving up, it's about making the most of it. The future really is Black and White, so if we're going to make a difference lets make it together? Please do consider backing the club, your support will always be appreciated by the club. Over the years I am sure many season ticket holders have made firm friends, those who attend every now or then will most likely know someone too. We are a League One team on the up, no longer the League Two side fearing the drop into the unknown and to avoid this we need to believe we can achieve. If anyone at the football club reads this, I firmly believe in our title and site name. I would be mad to use it otherwise. We might be a small minority at the moment but the difference that's trying to be reached, for me, is clearly noticeable. Lets do this properly! You can find ticket details here, onwards and upwards as Mr Trew would say.