R H

Hi, Robbie, and thanks. The concern I have is that some of this might be retconning because the 1862 date was accepted but the club's own papers said 1864, so there was an attempt to reconcile the two by saying the club existed unofficially before its proper formation. But the more likely thing is that it was ACTUALLY formed in 1864 and that 1862 is an oft-repeated mistake. Hence I wonder if there is something from before December 1864. If there was anything beforehand they would have been playing between themselves, the nearest opponents would have been in Sheffield or Lincoln. And newspaper reports were mostly drawn up by club secretaries who would send them in. So the odd kickabout would not be something anyone would formally report. But footballs were expensive. The equivalent today of £50. That's a lot to lay out for a kickabout - plus they would not be available locally. That would be quite a commitment. Maybe any memoirs? Someone saying they had been playing for a couple of years before finding out there were like-minded souls up the road and deciding to form a club?

Hello - sorry to bump this up but I've been doing some research on football club foundations, mainly because some clubs (Stoke/Palace) are trying to claim a much older history than is warranted. It got me looking into County's foundation, and I found something interesting. The 28 November 1862 newspaper article mentioned on the club's website is not about Notts at all. It's about a Sheffield club, Milton, formed out of a cricket club. There's no chance of a typo - the Sheffield Daily Telegraph carries an advert about the match the previous Saturday. The confusion seems to be that it was held at Cremorne Gardens, but not the road in Nottingham as the Nottm Guardian claims; it was an area later called the Orphanage and Milton played there through the 1860s. Sheff Weds also played there in 1867. I'm guessing that someone saw the claimed 1862 date, looked back in the newspapers for that year, found that football match, and assumed it involved County. But the minutes from 7 December 1864 (as reported in 1925) state definitively that the Notts Foot Ball Club is being formed then and there, and it did not exist in 1862. No idea where the 1862 date comes from other than there are claims for 1860, 1862, 1863, and 1864 in the various yearbooks... At least the 1864 date does not affect the oldest professional club record (Stoke's claim is rubbish and Palace's does not even get THAT high) but it does add a slight twist. So does anyone have any better evidence for there being a club - rather than occasional kickabouts - for the players who would eventually form the Notts club?