Manager or Head Coach?

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

The Term Manager seems to be slowly being eradicated from Football, to be replaced with the unflattering position name of Head Coach, and along with it the power or should that be a bigger say in team affaires, that a manager had. Interestingly the New New Man at Liverpool Arne Slot is the Head Coach, unlike his predecessor Jurgen Klopp who had the title of Manager.

With the New name it also seems that a Head Coach is just that a Coach and it appears that unlike a Manager a Coach  does Not have as much influence on things within the Club he works for. It comes across that a Head Coach doesn't have as much say in the signing of players, sure he can put forward his ideas and players he'd like in his team, but the last word on Transfers so it seems is down to the Recruitment team. Case in point Macca's signing before Luke Williams was revealed as the New Notts Head Coach. And what say does Stuart Maynard have regarding the signing of New Players?

There will be Fans that will state that SM has a say in New Players coming to the Club, but does he really? After all can you see our Head Coach going into Richard Montague and saying Richard this new player you've got an eye on signing, I don't think he's the kind of guy who'll fit into the Notts way of playing. Do you think the reply would be Ok Stuart you're the Boss we'll look at somebody else. Nope, it would be well we've looked at his Data and We think he'll be the perfect fit. Answering my own question Does Stuart Maynard have a say in player transfer's ? Yes perhaps a small amount, but not the type of influence the likes of Jimmy Sirrel, Big Sam and Neil Warnock had when they were Manager down the Lane. Three Managers who brought Success to the Magpies.

It would also seem that any New Coach going to a Club, who has a Playing Model in Place the New Coach has to follow that Model to the letter and Not add his own flair or ideas. It was stated that Roberto de Zerbi at Brighton left because Club wouldn't let him change the way they play, Albion finished 6th the season before last and 10th this. Zerbi saw where the team were failing but instead of allowing him to change things around he left by Mutual Consent. Yeah Right. Was it the same for Poch at Chelsea? He made changes at Chelsea towards the end of last season and things got better, But he moved away from the Chelsea Model, now he to is Out Of A Job. Manager or Head Coach? I know which I prefer.

[Fan of Big Tone 𝕏 @mainstandpie]

Yes it does seem to be the modern way in football to appoint a head coach rather than a manager.  It seems with Notts for instance the owners pick a head coach that will coach the players to play in the way the owners would like football played, the recruitment team select targets they think will be best suited based on data and it’s the head coaches job to use those players how he sees fit.

In some ways it takes a lot of work off the head coach so he can concentrate on coaching the squad instead of having to deal with player negotiations, buying and selling etc. like the old fashioned managers did.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

I think it's just the modern way of doing things at clubs nowadays. There is so much science involved in recruiting now. It is not as simple as contacting a player and arranging an interview.

We have agents acting for players now and these agents will hold all the information on their players, for example, player statistics, injury record, mental & Psychological evaluation, Player skills & style.

There are many people involved in recruiting now ranging from Academy coach through to the Head Coach, & his coaching staff. They will probably all discuss the players they want and the club will contact agents for player info.

The Player's stats will be examined and evaluated & this will decide if they go ahead & invite the player for interview.

So as you can see, recruiting players is a much involved process nowadays, with the final part of the process being the Player interview, which could include multiple parts to decide if the player is suitable.

That's before they even talk about the financial side/ contracts etc. I suppose regarding contracts the Chief Executive in consultation with the Owners will have the final say.

A Manager on his own just couldn't do all this nowadays, he or she simply do not have the time.

 

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Robbie @Fan of Big Tone

Aye things move on, but sometimes not for the better . IMHO. A Manager would have his assistant and a staff of Scouting Personal, and that's would be all that was needed, regarding looking at potential Transfer Targets. A Manager would go to the Owner(s) and talk about a Player that they wanted to sign and they negotiated with the player and his representatives and a Deal was done, easier and more simpler, than having to jump through all the Hoops of today. Why do people make the Easy Hard and the Simple Difficult?

It would also  seem Head Coaches nowadays have all their talent flair and ideas Strangled for the sake of the Model (or Pep Ball.)  For it would seem that Stuart Maynard was hired because when he was at Wealdstone, his team played in the same style of Luke Williams Notts Side. So we Fans need to ask would he have been chosen if, his Wealdstone team didn't play that way? Maynard came in for a lot of Stick because of not only the Magpies Poor results but playing a Style which wasn't working when Luke Williams left for Swansea. And yet it seems come Hell or High Water Notts will still play that same Style in the forthcoming  Season, and if the Magpies results continue to Go South, Stuart Maynard will be the one who pays the Price by getting sacked, while those who insist on keeping Notts playing a losing Game Plan will Get Off Scott Free.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@Wheelbarrow repair man I get what you are saying and there are pros & cons to the Manager model as well as the Head Coach model. 

If you read about the Steve Collis appointment, Stuart is clearly behind that appointment, so I do think that he does have a lot of say on the appointment of players and backroom staff.

And the Matty Platt signing shows that Notts are going to change their model a small amount because his biggest strength isn't his ball playing ability.

We will have to see if Notts expect him to play out from the back or hoof it upfield.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Robbie

Don't think Notts are going to change their Model. Quote from Richard Montague.

We also have every confidence in Matty's Ability to Embrace Our Style of Play.

Doesn't sound like anything is Changing at the Lane on the Pitch.

And as you say, Matty's biggest strength isn't his ball playing ability.  So another player will have to

adopt to Not Playing the way he's used to. Will that Affect His Game? Let's Hope Not.

[menzinho]

I think it can potentially be an advantage, assuming that the recruitment side of things are well run and the ideas all align. A head coach then really only has one main job – to coach! Football’s all about trying to get those marginal gains and maybe a coach that is able to spend all his time on the training pitch is advantageous, maybe one extra session might just make the difference...

I think a traditional manager can still work as well, but they have an awful lot more to do and it could potentially mean one aspect of their many roles starts to suffer, for example this is from David Artell when he was the manager at Crewe; “I was doing coaching, recruitment, scouting, loan strategies, transfer strategies, individual development and contract negotiations”.  He described himself as being “burnt-out” at the end of his time there and Crewe eventually got relegated back into L2.

Given what Stuart Maynard has said in interviews he's involved in recruitment, but probably doesn't spend time and effort scouting, rather just gives his opinion on the players the recruitment team has identified. And I’m pretty confident that if SM really didn’t want a player the club wouldn’t sign him (I don’t think this scenario would ever happen though because our recruitment is collaborative and will be about finding players that suit the teams/SM’s style and needs).

I think the real issue would arise if the recruitment and head coach had very different ideas about what the team needed to improve… I'm pretty sure there were rumours of clashes between Moniz and Branston a good few years ago!

Edited June 5 by menzinho

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

A really good answer to the thread@menzinho 

A Manager has many duties to perform & I think that Football clubs are trying to get the right balance by having a Head Coach assisted by coaching staff.

I've also noticed that when clubs are in trouble they dispense with the Head Coach model & bring in a temporary manager on a short contract like a Warnock or an Allardyce. 

These guys want to be in charge of all aspects regarding the team, but it seems clubs will only tolerate this approach for a short time.

 

[Chris Website URL Visit Site 𝕏 fmcj10 Instagram fmcj10]

Sometimes, there is very little difference between a head coach and a manager; it depends on how the club itself decides which areas of the day-to-day running of the club, from the players' perspective, he has responsibility for.

In our case, I think the head coach role should see more input from whoever is in charge when it comes to recruitment.

I don't know how much of a say Stuart Maynard has in regard to the coaching team or players coming in, but I would imagine he's less involved. Whilst a tracksuit manager may have been the earliest form of a head coach, albeit with more responsibilities off the field - I do think having someone who can implement there a structure, philosophy and general approach to playing has more benefits of bringing out the best of players.

It's interesting to look at how each person approaches their duties, for example Big Sam is well known for allowing his players a level of freedom and doesn't fret about them socialising (including drinking). Whereas others are a lot more disciplined, Maynard does look very comfortable coaching and taking charge of those training sessions. I need to acknowledge he will still be learning, every coach does, but I think the area where managers have more strength is within their tactics and match decisions. Head coaches tend to stick with underperforming players without subbing them, along with being persistent in regard to their formation.

Also, I do think it takes much of the burden of the head coach with him having a clear emphasis on managing the players he has within his squad.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

Lots of Clubs have a Director of Football role who specifically deal with overseeing the running of medical & physiotherapy departments, the scouting network, transfer dealings, and data analysis.

We don't know who has this role at Notts but I would have thought that someone on the back room staff would be doing some of this role.

I wonder if Notts CEO Joe Palmer has this function as part of his duties?

[Scotty]

Yes it does appear that the term Manager is increasingly changing to that of head Coach. But football is an increasingly changing world. The old school of blood & guts of Sirrel, Shankly, Clough and Allardyce has moved on. The intensive nature of running a football club is now compartmentalised. Where once the main man would supervise all areas of football management, there are now specialist people running certain areas, including that of recruitment. Where once managers built their own squads for team to play football their way. If it succeeded, fine. If it didn’t, sadly too often in our history, it required a trunk and branch renewal. Often there would be costly sackings of managers, the appointment of a new manager who would rebuild a squad for a team to play his way… and repeat… and repeat.

The way Notts are structured is enlightening. Successful, cerebral-minded-business people who have made their money using data driven analysis to predict the outcome of football matches, have invested that money in buying Notts County. A team which has seen the whole spectrum of success from back to back promotions, through to almost disappearing, at the hands of gamblers, gangsters and businessmen, some with the best honest intentions in good faith.

Where previous owners empowered managers to once do the old way of buying players, most recently evidenced with Alan Hardy giving Nolan a free hand to buy players without a Director of Football or established playing style. Despite the best of intentions, it all ended in tears and its back to square one and repeat as above.

The brothers bring a plan. Data driven analytic football. Agreeing a style of play. Securing a Head Coach who seeks to play that style of play. Secure players who can and want to play that way. Should – as evidenced in Burchinall and Williams - our manager be teased away, the style of play continues. It is all about keeping the engine working, about replacing the part, not the entire engine.

Part of this covers the recruitment. Wide-angled and embracing multi-faceted, data-driven football that has unearthed players such as Rueben, Macca, Scott, Jones and Jatta. Our future is about continuing this. The brother’s track record shows they will make sure the players will honour their contracts. Not selling key players. So to answer the questions outlined above, Notts will secure managers who not only agree with and buy into the agreed style of operating but excel in the roll of extracting the best from the best group of the players available via the recruitment team. Luke got great players playing brilliantly at NL league level. Last season was a learning curve in learning how to adapt and survive.

I believe our players had abandonment issues when Luke left. I believe these players struggled with his departure and performances suffered. This will be Stuart’s first start to a Notts season. I believe he can extract the best from our players, to recover from the disappointments of last season and consolidate. If I’m wrong and he fails - then as spelt out above – it is not a disaster. Not a back to square one. It is about keeping the engine working, about replacing the part, not the entire engine.

[Fan of Big Tone 𝕏 @mainstandpie]

Excellent first post @Scotty

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

Excellent read @Scotty 

 

[Chris Website URL Visit Site 𝕏 fmcj10 Instagram fmcj10]

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

I wonder if Notts CEO Joe Palmer has this function as part of his duties?

I would believe his involvement in the signings and recruitment is quite high.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's not the person handling much of the first contact with potential signings, I recall being told Jason Turner was very involved with this area. Richard Montague duties are a little unknown to me, he might be more active with this role.