The Toughness of Leagues: A Discussion on the UK Game

[AmericanPie]

Apart from the National League, would you consider the Premier League to be the subsequent most challenging division in which to achieve success? I am not referring to the quality of play, but rather the difficulty in accomplishing objectives.

Additionally, why do you believe that English managers are increasingly being disregarded for top-flight positions, particularly towards the higher end of the standings?

For instance, Eddie, who many might have expected to struggle whilst adapting to a wealthier club like Newcastle United. Nonetheless, it is invigorating to observe his performance.

When Newcastle United dismissed Steve Bruce, they might have opted for any manager, but they selected Eddie Howe. What are your thoughts on this matter?

[liampie]

i think league on is harder for teams who haven't been in the championship for awhile to gain promotion, those that do need to have a good team and a lot of belief. once you get there, i think most find that they can become a good league one team. the championship is not as good as people say, it can be but you just need a good team and depth, a manager can make all the difference. the premier league wont see another leicester city story for ages if ever, to much money is pumped into it.

its not hard if the playing field for all clubs was level but teams still spend huge fees and its hard to see how the financial fair play helps.

[Robbie]

I believe the Premier League has become almost a closed shop to win for 86 of the 92 league clubs with just 6 or possibly 7 clubs only, having a realistic chance of winning the Premier League.

The Championship is fast becoming the same with the three clubs relegated from the Premier league having all the advantages in getting promoted back due to the parachute payments.

League 1 & League 2 clubs have more of an equal playing field and as you go down the football pyramid, it tends to get even more competitive, long may that continue.

We know what the problems are that stifle competition. There's just two much money held by half a dozen clubs, and money means power in football.

I don't see anything changing in the short term. Maybe the top six or seven will join a European Super League, which may actually increase competition throughout the domestic pyramid system.

[KB1862]

I strongly believe that out of all 4 divisions (Premier League, Championships, Leagues 1 & 2) the Championship is by far the most competitive. It's unpredictable and there are quite a few games that have outright favourites losing to clubs lower down the league. The parachute payments make it easier for the clubs relegated from the Premier League to bounce back and we get those Yo-Yo clubs but outside of that it's never a foregone conclusion as to who will be promoted. 

I think, as Notts found out, the National League is possibly the hardest to get out of due to the fact that there is only 1 automatic promotion place with 6 teams entering play offs and when it comes to the play offs all the hard work done during the season is thrown out the window and it becomes a sprint rather than a marathon so to speak.

The Premier League is still the best league in the world, in my opinion, but it's losing its edge slightly in terms of competitiveness. There's still a few results that go against form and league positions but those kind of results are dying out the more seasons go on and it's getting to the point of the team with the most money gets the job done in the end. It's getting to the sort of Bundesliga/Ligue 1 sort of competitiveness where the bigger clubs buy out the best players from lower clubs and the gap widens.

[TheSkipper]

The top four professional English leagues are highly competitive. However, if you can earn money or have a wealthy owner, you’re nearly halfway to tackling it. Hiring a competent manager and paying for the best players you can afford makes it much more difficult for the smaller teams. That’s why I’m cheering for Luton Town to stay in the Premier League. Achievements like this make football a bit less unpredictable and cause a stir. Yes, teams usually face relegation, but even a single season in the Premier League can turn a club into a more powerful entity. I wish it wasn’t all about money and what you can afford, but occasionally a club will succeed on a tight budget and achieve great things, much like Leicester City and Brentford.

[KB1862]

21 hours ago, TheSkipper said:

That’s why I’m cheering for Luton Town to stay in the Premier League.

I'm the same, it's nice to see a team like Luton mixing it up with some of the big hitters of the Premier League. They aren't a team to be taken as pushovers and they've shown it. At the start of the season, it was looking like it was too much of a big step for them to take but as the games have gone on they've certainly held their own. 8 goals and 4 points in 2 games against both Brighton and Newcastle, it's a great achievement for a newly promoted side.

I hope they don't become the new version of Blackpool where they become that team that almost everyone roots for to stay in the league only for them to ultimately get relegated. They are a breath of fresh air for the Premier League. Plus, they've got a togetherness about them and their players are relishing every opportunity. Ross Barkley has been in terrific form for them and I'm glad to see that he's finding the ability that he's not been able to utilise in recent seasons. A credible option for the Euros. 

[Robbie]

People tend to forget that Association Football is a TEAM game. Over the last 20 years or so, the norm has been to buy the best players and get them all to play together. I believe that the top managers think along those lines, but some notable managers of the past built great teams out of, what they would call today, just ordinary players.

Jimmy Sirrel built teams, so did Brian Clough and Bill Shankly was another one.

A modern example was what happened at Leicester a few years ago when they shocked everyone & won the premier league. You couldn't say that Leicester was full of superstars, but they were a great team, that could play together perfectly.

Luton are playing well because they've become a TEAM playing well with each other. I think they have a great chance of staying up.

[KB1862]

@Robbie Agreed, Luton are a club that build as a team, play as a team and win, lose or draw as a team. 

Alf Ramsay won the World Cup in 66 by selecting players because they fit in to his team not because of how good an individual was. 

Alex Ferguson also built a team. Bringing through the class of 92 and making them as one. Neville, Keane, Becks, Scholes all those guys say that they were a family and Fergie bought them together. That's why they became so good. Yes, it was a superstar team but they were also bought down to earth to be a team as opposed to an individual. 

It's a benefit having talented individuals in teams but when they don't work as a team, it doesn't quite happen for them. Take the so called "golden generation" of England for example. A star studded line up but never managed to achieve anything when perhaps they should have. Mostly due to the club cliques formed.

[AmericanPie]

On 08/02/2024 at 20:42, Robbie said:

People tend to forget that Association Football is a TEAM game. Over the last 20 years or so, the norm has been to buy the best players and get them all to play together. I believe that the top managers think along those lines, but some notable managers of the past built great teams out of, what they would call today, just ordinary players.

Jimmy Sirrel built teams, so did Brian Clough and Bill Shankly was another one.

A modern example was what happened at Leicester a few years ago when they shocked everyone & won the premier league. You couldn't say that Leicester was full of superstars, but they were a great team, that could play together perfectly.

Luton are playing well because they've become a TEAM playing well with each other. I think they have a great chance of staying up.

They constructed teams starting from the back, with a solid keeper, defense, hardworking midfielder, and clinical forwards. They identified what was lacking, regardless of age, and integrated their style into their envisioned way of playing. Brian Clough had Pete Taylor, a great player spotter. Jimmy Sirrel focused on homegrown players and coaching to fulfill potential. Nowadays, clubs emphasise ability and, more recently, statistics.

[liampie]

i think all of the english leagues are difficult, the national leagues a joke with only two promotions and one of those being via the playoffs. harrogate and sutton dont realise how special their achievements are. league two this season has shown its difficult but hopefully we can start to steady and go on to improve next season. with four teams going up its not as hard as it could be.

league one is quite a stretch if you dont have the money to invest in the players. i think once we do get back there we will need a few seasons just to establish ourselves so that we dont come back straight down to league two.

the championship has to be our dream for any team but you need to have the right balance of finances and good enough players. i think its likely teams will do a us or yeovil.