Warnock on Jose Mourinho

[Chris]

I just heard this on the radio and I cringed, "Jose Mourinho and Brian Clough are cut from the same cloth".

Now I spent many years disliking Brian Clough in my younger years, I hated his arrogance. Though I suppose this was based on by the fact the only person in my family who thought anything of him was @super_ram. My grandfather appreciated what he did but he didn't like him because of his smugness and attitude.

I dislike Jose Mourinho for pretty the same reason, yet I have grown to appreciate and like Brian Clough (I've matured I suppose).

I do not think that these two people are cut from the same cloth, Neil can be an idiot sometimes when he speaks. You just can't compare the two in my opinion, one played football and had a brilliant goal scoring record and became a manager known for his wheeling and dealing (yes he probably over spent) but what he did with clubs was impressive.

Jose Mourinho is lucky to have been able to manage gifted sides, yes he's a good manager but I don't think he could win the league with Stoke City let alone Nottingham Forest.

Rant over!

[weymouthPIE]

Big fan of Brian Clough myself, always have been. He will forever remain the greatest manager England never had. I'd love to hear what he'd make of the state the game in this country finds itself in right now, both domestically and at international level. He'd pull no punches that's for sure!

 

I think it's fair to say Jose has and will go on to win much more than what Brian did, but I don't think you can really compare the two. They game is completely different to what it was then. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to sit here and say Jose Mourinio is not a very good football manager becauase he's one of the best in the business. He's no Shaun Derry, but he's up there. But as you say, he's been very lucky in that he's always inhereted a very talented squad wherever he's been. Sure he's brought in players but he's had vast amounts of money to do it with for a start. I don't think you can really say he's completely rebuilt any side.

 

And that's what Brian did. Certainly the success he achieved at Derby County and Forest, and Hartlepools to a lesser extent - where achieved on a real shoe string budget. He brought in unfashionable players to unfashionable clubs and got them to do a job just the way he wanted, and when they all worked as one - the results followed. The way he did what he did will always make him one of the best for me.

 

But I suppose you could argue that Cloughie was less successfull when he didn't have Peter Taylor at his side, and the evidence suggests that may well be the case. But they all work in couples don't they? Cloughie and Taylor, Jimmy & Jack, Shaun and Greg...

[Northants Pie]

I think it would be fair to say that they are cut from the same cloth, the unflappable self belief (or arrogance as it may come across), this partly comes across in their records as winners wherever they've been, could Mourinho do it on a limited budget? Who knows? Could Clough manage a team with ego's bigger than his? Again who knows? My best guess would be NO to both questions.

 

Alot of what the general public liked about Clough (his frankness in response) wouldn't be allowed in the modern game, Mourinho plays a similar game but in the guise of making the media dance to his every word.

 

Both are / were far, far more intelligent than most people give them credit for

[PTID1862]

I read a few years back "walking on water" http://www.brianclough.com/book1.htm . My opinion of the man went up immeasurably, of course we all saw the success he had and the effect it had on that club.

 

Jealous... Damn right I was

 

I don't think Jose could do what Cloughie did, and as you say, there would be a question mark over having egos bigger than him at a club, but....

I still think if he was in his prime, he could and would do it now... but it would be with the likes of a Stoke or Palace or even a Burnley.

 

And he would do it his way!

[Chris]

Both are vastly different, I do except Jose does well with "stars" but he doesn't develop them.

[Northants Pie]

I read a few years back "walking on water" http://www.brianclough.com/book1.htm . My opinion of the man went up immeasurably, of course we all saw the success he had and the effect it had on that club.

 

Jealous... Damn right I was

 

I don't think Jose could do what Cloughie did, and as you say, there would be a question mark over having egos bigger than him at a club, but....

I still think if he was in his prime, he could and would do it now... but it would be with the likes of a Stoke or Palace or even a Burnley.

 

And he would do it his way!

 

That's the point though re Clough, you would never place him at a club like the modern day Chelsea for example, you are right though that with a less fancied club he would do it all over again.

 

As an example of Mourinho's greatest gift, what do you think would have happened to possibly the most gifted player ever to play the game (George Best) if Mourinho had been in charge? Would he have gone off the rails in the way he did or would he have gone on to be the player he should have been? 

[Northants Pie]

Both are vastly different, I do except Jose does well with "stars" but he doesn't develop them.

 

I would have to disagree with that mate, look at Drogba, he was a who is he?? When he signed for Chelsea,, we all know who he is now

[Chris]

I would have to disagree with that mate, look at Drogba, he was a who is he?? When he signed for Chelsea,, we all know who he is now

Nah, he was quite well thought of throughout Europe but he was similar to Patrick V. Yet Chelsea played to Drogba strengths, I wouldn't say they developed him.

[PTID1862]

As an example of Mourinho's greatest gift, what do you think would have happened to possibly the most gifted player ever to play the game (George Best) if Mourinho had been in charge? Would he have gone off the rails in the way he did or would he have gone on to be the player he should have been?

 

An interesting question, and has more than one answer.

 

I suppose if you look at Mourinho and the way he has his sides, they seem as a family, and let's face it they would all run through walls for him, so quite possibly George would have gone on to be heaven knows how good.

 

But..

 

And it is the same with Gasgoine, who also played for one of the two best man managers to have been in English Football (El Tel and Sir Bobby Robson), George was IMO very much a flawed genius, and I still think in his particular case he would have gone astray... There is that very fine line, and unfortunately for our game and everybody that knew them, neither of those two fine footballers would have been able to stay the right side of it.

[liampie]

jose who? lol

comparing his to brian clough is just weird. one knew football inside out, how to build a squad and do it by building correctly. the other splashes cash and wobbles when he cant. why did he orginally leave chelski? oh yeah.

[PTID1862]

So .... Ol Big Ed by a gnats whisker then....

[Northants Pie]

As an example of Mourinho's greatest gift, what do you think would have happened to possibly the most gifted player ever to play the game (George Best) if Mourinho had been in charge? Would he have gone off the rails in the way he did or would he have gone on to be the player he should have been?

 

An interesting question, and has more than one answer.

 

I suppose if you look at Mourinho and the way he has his sides, they seem as a family, and let's face it they would all run through walls for him, so quite possibly George would have gone on to be heaven knows how good.

 

But..

 

And it is the same with Gasgoine, who also played for one of the two best man managers to have been in English Football (El Tel and Sir Bobby Robson), George was IMO very much a flawed genius, and I still think in his particular case he would have gone astray... There is that very fine line, and unfortunately for our game and everybody that knew them, neither of those two fine footballers would have been able to stay the right side of it.

 

I agree that as good as he was on the pitch he was just as destructive off it and I'm also sure that the fact that he was the first player to endure the fanatical adulation off the pitch as well as on it from both sexes had a major role to play in his demise (Mourinho would have curbed that behaviour I reckon) most of which created his heavy drinking unlike Gascoigne who reportedly always drank like a fish from a young age.

 

Going back to the original question though they are both very similar and on the flip side so very different.

[PTID1862]

"Going back to the original question though they are both very similar and on the flip side so very different."

 

Agreed very different...

 

also going on what @liampie said, quite rightly IMO, Cloughie was great at what he did, at that time and with the clubs he did it.

 

You have to admire them both!!!

[Chris]

"Going back to the original question though they are both very similar and on the flip side so very different."

Agreed very different...

also going on what @liampie said, quite rightly IMO, Cloughie was great at what he did, at that time and with the clubs he did it.

You have to admire them both!!!

Jose? Nah... I'd rather admire the pope [emoji16] [emoji12]

[Dripsey3]

Jose Mourinho won the Champions League with Porto. He took an unfashionable club and won Europe's biggest prize. He took a dysfunctional Inter Milan and won the Champions League. He's earned the title of one of the best.

[PTID1862]

I did like Jose's post match interview today...

 

"He lost a game the way he wants to lose" no blaming players, no blaming officials, nor blaming anybody, we just lost a game with some bad luck....

 

But you have to say well done to Newcastle, so what if a second ball got thrown on, or  the ball boys went on a go slow at 2-0, or the crowd kept the ball for a while ....

 

I seem to remember we played multi ball for a while in the promo season, but when we were a couple up, the ball boys and the multi balls soon disappeared...

 

Good on him for not making more of it...

[Chris]

I did like Jose's post match interview today...

 

"He lost a game the way he wants to lose" no blaming players, no blaming officials, nor blaming anybody, we just lost a game with some bad luck....

 

But you have to say well done to Newcastle, so what if a second ball got thrown on, or  the ball boys went on a go slow at 2-0, or the crowd kept the ball for a while ....

 

I seem to remember we played multi ball for a while in the promo season, but when we were a couple up, the ball boys and the multi balls soon disappeared...

 

Good on him for not making more of it...

Really? He moaned about time wasting of the Newcastle players.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30361912

[PTID1862]

No, and he didn't really moan, he said the referee had a great game but couldn't control what happened by crowd, ball boys etc. I didn't hear him complain about Newcastle players at all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/