BREXIT.....

Robbie · February 1

5 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

https://davidallengreen.com/2022/08/did-johnson-lie-to-the-queen-on-the-prorogation-issue-a-summary/

Legal position

They lied, end of

You are wrong end of.

**Piethagoram** · February 1

12 minutes ago, Robbie said:

You are wrong end of.

So a respected legal expert is wrong? @Robbie Aren't you able to read the judgment?

Furthermore Rees Mogg moved his investment funds to Dublin, from the UK. Don't you accept you are being gas lit by these instructed right wing think tank lobbyists?

Robbie · February 1

2 hours ago, Piethagoram said:

So a respected legal expert is wrong? @Robbie Aren't you able to read the judgment?

Furthermore Rees Mogg moved his investment funds to Dublin, from the UK. Don't you accept you are being gas lit by these instructed right wing think tank lobbyists?

I disagree.

Don't you accept that you are being gas lit by the liberal progressive remoaner establishment?

Some spend their life and their time either trying to knock Brexit or smear leading Brexiteers and those like myself who voted Brexit, we are used to it and it is water off a duck's back to us.

Rees Mogg is a respected politician and a devout Christian & although I don't support his party, I believe he's being honest in saying he didn't mislead the Queen, but even if he did & I believe he didn't, that has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

And him moving funds has nothing to do with Brexit either.

How about discussing the farmers in the EU complaining about the EUs green policies. Tusk riding roughshod over democracy in Poland. The corrupt EU Parliament ignoring voters according to the Polish MEP, how about the fact that the EU has negotiated no free trade deals with any other Country outside the EU since the UK left the EU 4 years ago?

Yet the UK has completed dozens of free trade deals in the same time.

Our economy is growing faster than France, Germany is in recession, the EU economy is shrinking compared to the rest of the World. We are signing trade deals with Countries where their economies are growing & the CPTPP that we have joined will be bigger than the EU in the near future.

Lots of positivity there.

And we signed a free trade deal with the EU too. We have no problem with a Free trade deal, we don't want the political union

**Piethagoram** · February 2

C'mon @Robbie you are better than that. This is complete hogwash.

"Rees Mogg is a respected politician and a devout Christian"... I maybe a lapsed Catholic but someone who continually votes against things like free school dinners for the poorest in society is not "Christian" in my book

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-jacob-rees-mogg-lies-25346/

"....has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit." but Robbie it did...the prorogation of Parliament:

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/24/boris-johnsons-suspension-of-parliament-unlawful-supreme-court-rules-prorogue

Boris and Rees Mogg deliberately suspended the democratic right of parliament to sit, in the midst of discussing Brexit legislation

"And him moving funds has nothing to do with Brexit either." hmmmm...evidence @Robbie ?

It has everything to do with the risk of tax, outside of the Single Market

"Tusk riding roughshod over democracy in Poland"... Tusk has just won the Polish election!

"The corrupt EU Parliament..." oh yeah, nothings perfect but "corrupt"...well look at the UK Parliament for corruption, like donations for the Tory party for seats in the House of Lords, & PPE scandals? How is that not corruption?..but OK , UK corruption is fine with you as long as it's UK and not EU!!!

"Yet the UK has completed dozens of free trade deals in the same time."...these are just rollovers of the existing EU based trade deals. "dozens" :rollonfloorlaughing:

"the CPTPP that we have joined will be bigger than the EU in the near future." oh yes, distant markets chestnut... UK is already at a disadvantage in terms of transport costs to access those distant markets, pricing the UK out of competing. Wake up Robbie!

Look at the falling value of Sterling since the referendum, which in turn imports inflationary pressures

As regards the video of that Polish politician, you mean the one whose party aligns more with Russian thinking than the EU. I rest my case, your honour

**Piethagoram** · February 2

Robbie · February 2

On 02/02/2024 at 07:19, Piethagoram said:

C'mon @Robbie you are better than that. This is complete hogwash.

"Rees Mogg is a respected politician and a devout Christian"... I maybe a lapsed Catholic but someone who continually votes against things like free school dinners for the poorest in society is not "Christian" in my book

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-jacob-rees-mogg-lies-25346/

"....has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit." but Robbie it did...the prorogation of Parliament:

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/24/boris-johnsons-suspension-of-parliament-unlawful-supreme-court-rules-prorogue

Boris and Rees Mogg deliberately suspended the democratic right of parliament to sit, in the midst of discussing Brexit legislation

"And him moving funds has nothing to do with Brexit either." hmmmm...evidence @Robbie ?

It has everything to do with the risk of tax, outside of the Single Market

"Tusk riding roughshod over democracy in Poland"... Tusk has just won the Polish election!

"The corrupt EU Parliament..." oh yeah, nothings perfect but "corrupt"...well look at the UK Parliament for corruption, like donations for the Tory party for seats in the House of Lords, & PPE scandals? How is that not corruption?..but OK , UK corruption is fine with you as long as it's UK and not EU!!!

"Yet the UK has completed dozens of free trade deals in the same time."...these are just rollovers of the existing EU based trade deals. "dozens"

"the CPTPP that we have joined will be bigger than the EU in the near future." oh yes, distant markets chestnut... UK is already at a disadvantage in terms of transport costs to access those distant markets, pricing the UK out of competing. Wake up Robbie!

Look at the falling value of Sterling since the referendum, which in turn imports inflationary pressures

As regards the video of that Polish politician, you mean the one whose party aligns more with Russian thinking than the EU. I rest my case, your honou

Talk about respecting someone else's opinion.

But Whatever.

On 02/02/2024 at 07:58, Piethagoram said:

FBPE always trying to shut down alternative opinion.

They never change but whatever..

**Piethagoram** · February 2

The problem is dear @Robbie you seem to have difficulty arguing when the actual facts are presented as above... your response is like from any Express /GB News reader/ viewer...oh its another #FBPE shutting down alternative views...that's far from the truth! I have individually broken down each of your arguments presented...and the response is, look over there...

So let's come at it, from this angle

Say, over 45 years of EU laws, which one's don't you actually like that has made your life worse?

Robbie · February 2

**Piethagoram** · February 2

I asked the question to @Robbie

"So let's come at it, from this angle

Say, over 45 years of EU laws, which one's don't you actually like that has made your life worse?"

The reply, two tweets from that Public schoolboy with seemingly racist tendencies..the second tweet, on immigration, where the UK government, despite "controlling our borders post Brexit, has willingly increased immigration...

Hey, but look over there to the EU..... "Taking back control", a meaningless 3 word slogan in an international environment

Robbie · February 2

5 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

I asked the question to @Robbie

"So let's come at it, from this angle

Say, over 45 years of EU laws, which one's don't you actually like that has made your life worse?"

The reply, two tweets from that Public schoolboy with seemingly racist tendencies..the second tweet, on immigration, where the UK government, despite "controlling our borders post Brexit, has willingly increased immigration...

Hey, but look over there to the EU..... "Taking back control", a meaningless 3 word slogan in an international environment

You talk about racism.

What about the racists and antisemites that are controlling the Labour Party?

And that controlling is only going to get larger year by year

Of course you'll deny it, but it is true and everyone knows it.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

15 hours ago, Robbie said:

Rees-Mogg denies lying to the Queen.

You would though wouldn't you... that would lose him his seat in Parliament and could be considered treasonous. Under those circumstances of course he would deny it. Legal opinion says otherwise.

Anyway, as I say they younger generation will sort it out soon enough once the Brexiteers die out (sad, but looking at the demographics of that poll inevitable). As my daughters point out to me, our generation(the Tories as they see it) have screwed the planet (wait until you see the coming immigration from that disaster), we (the Tories) have removed their freedom to move and work where they want and we (the Tories) have screwed the economy here and removed their opportunities to work here too. Their generation doesn't have a lot of love for what we (the Tories) have done.

Robbie · February 2

1 minute ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

You would though wouldn't you... that would lose him his seat in Parliament and could be considered treasonous. Under those circumstances of course he would deny it. Legal opinion says otherwise.

Anyway, as I say they younger generation will sort it out soon enough once the Brexiteers die out (sad, but looking at the demographics of that poll inevitable). As my daughters point out to me, our generation(the Tories as they see it) have screwed the planet (wait until you see the coming immigration from that disaster), we (the Tories) have removed their freedom to move and work where they want and we (the Tories) have screwed the economy here and removed their opportunities to work here too. Their generation doesn't have a lot of love for what we (the Tories) have done.

My daughters and their children agree with me that the EU was bad for our Country. Don't be so sure that millennials, generation Z and Alpha will not be against what the EU stand for, especially with the uncontrollable immigration and illegals flooding into the Country, who's values do not fit with ours.

Brexiteers have children and grandchildren too and they will be the new generation of Brexiteers.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

20 minutes ago, Robbie said:

My daughters and their children agree with me that the EU was bad for our Country. Don't be so sure that millennials, generation Z and Alpha will not be against what the EU stand for, especially with the uncontrollable immigration and illegals flooding into the Country, who's values do not fit with ours.

Brexiteers have children and grandchildren too and they will be the new generation of Brexiteers.

You say that the EU was bad for our country, but can't actually give an example of any laws that we have introduced because of the EU that have made your life worse. What are they?

I think the EU ship has sailed anyway, which is why I chose my words carefully. They see us as a pain to deal with and some countries (Ireland in particular) have done very nicely from us leaving and don't want us back. Incidentally, they also see a united Ireland on the horizon, which I can see as a distinct possibility now Sinn Fein have the First Minister at Stormont and are increasingly powerful in Dublin. Necessity will force a closer relationship with Europe, especially as we are likely to be left between a rock and a hard place when Trump wins and takes an extreme isolationist position... or become a vassal state of the US (Trump will not allow anything else).

My job involves working with sites around the world, those outside Europe think we were stark raving mad to leave, those in Europe are glad we did. We have just closed our UK operations (900 very well paid jobs gone) and are moving them to Ireland as we have better access to the much bigger EU market from there (luckily my 'office' is in the US so I am not impacted (yet) even though I live and work from here). Even the language schools that use to be so common around here have largely gone in the last 4 years, but I notice they have increased in Ireland as children go there to learn English rather than here. Anyway, we do have our blue (French manufactured) passports to wave as we wait in the queue.

Robbie · February 2

@Ohh Tommy Johnson

I don't like any foreign law that overrides UK law. The United States doesn't put EU law before their own, nor does, Brazil, India, Malaysia and dozens of other Countries around the World. Why should we?

And like I said previously, I don't want to be part of a foreign entity that is an undemocratic institution, with unelected Commissioners and us being only one state in an entity of 28 where we have 1/28 of the say.

Where we have to follow silly EU directives, that no use or ornament.

But we've been over all of this time and time again, but Remoaners will not accept our concerns about the EU.

Why can't you just be glad that we have a free trade deal with the EU, but we are free to build our own path in the World, such as trade and relationships with other Countries and trade blocks?

That is a big positive about Brexit.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

I was listening to a podcast of Prohibition in the US (history is a passion of mine). It was really interesting and you could draw many parallels to Brexit. There had been 3 separate but connected pressure groups - Ani-slavery, Womens' Rights and Temperance. They were all connected to the moral position of the US (slavery is obvious, women had no rights at all in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and drinking was a huge problem in the US). Drinking was partly put down to immigrant Germans (who saw a market for their beer) and immigrant Irish (who brought whiskey) with them. Slavery was quickly (relatively dealt with), but the other 2 struggled as their message was diluted because they had many strands. In the end the Anti-Saloon League became a 1 issue campaign which worked across political lines to ban alcohol, much in the way Farage and Johnson made the Brexit all about immigration. They consequently gained support from all sides and won the day. 12 years later Prohibition was repealed as it was seen for what it was a blunt tool to solve a complex problem, which harmed the country. One issue campaigns are effective in bringing change, but not at providing sustainable solutions. Tat is where we are now with Brexit.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

11 minutes ago, Robbie said:

@Ohh Tommy Johnson

I don't like any foreign law that overrides UK law. The United States doesn't put EU law before their own, nor does, Brazil, India, Malaysia and dozens of other Countries around the World. Why should we?

And like I said previously, I don't want to be part of a foreign entity that is an undemocratic institution, with unelected Commissioners and us being only one state in an entity of 28 where we have 1/28 of the say.

Where we have to follow silly EU directives, that no use or ornament.

But we've been over all of this time and time again, but Remoaners will not accept our concerns about the EU.

Why can't you just be glad that we have a free trade deal with the EU, but we are free to build our own path in the World, such as trade and relationships with other Countries and trade blocks?

That is a big positive about Brexit.

Actually the US does if it wants to sell in the EU... as Apple found out. Look at why they had to change from Lightning cables to USB C,

In my business, the US has to comply with EU rules on engineering design and standards. We won't be able to avoid these. I We don't have a free trade agreement with the EU, we have a trade agreement.. there is nothing free about it. The non-tariff charges are crippling our companies because the trade agreements with other countries don't compensate for the lost trade with the EU. It's not a positive of Brexit - our negotiating position is far weaker alone than as part of a large trading block. If we want a trade agreement with India we will need to accept free movement of people from India to the UK... sound familiar?

I'm interested to know what foreign law overrides ours?

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

Incidentally, by leaving we lost all control over reforming the EU to make it better. We had a significantly greater than 1 in 28 voice as we led a coalition of north European states including the Low Countries, those Scandinavian countries in the EU often allied to Germany, in discussions against France, Italy etc. We were also the conduit for the US to work with the EU and so had a disproportionate influence in Washington. We have seen in the way Trump and Biden have treated May, Johnson and Sunak that we are no longer considered relevant there... we are handy for helping lob a few missiles onto Middle Eastern rebels when told to do so, but not a lot else.

We are left with little influence and a weak negotiating position. Thanks to Johnson, we are seen as unreliable international partners who are willing to break international law and agreements. This further reduces our soft power and makes us less attractive to deal with. We are in a mess and that is entirely down to Johnson, Farage and their disciples (who have mostly done very nicely for themselves out of it).

Edited February 2 by Ohh Tommy Johnson

Robbie · February 2

33 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

Actually the US does if it wants to sell in the EU... as Apple found out. Look at why they had to change from Lightning cables to USB C,

In my business, the US has to comply with EU rules on engineering design and standards. We won't be able to avoid these. I We don't have a free trade agreement with the EU, we have a trade agreement.. there is nothing free about it. The non-tariff charges are crippling our companies because the trade agreements with other countries don't compensate for the lost trade with the EU. It's not a positive of Brexit - our negotiating position is far weaker alone than as part of a large trading block. If we want a trade agreement with India we will need to accept free movement of people from India to the UK... sound familiar?

I'm interested to know what foreign law overrides ours?

The EU wanted it that way They wanted to play awkward because they don't want competition. They are protectionists and want everything their own way, that's why the EU can't get free trade deals with Canada, or the US, or Mexico etc etc. Shall I go on?

39 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

Actually the US does if it wants to sell in the EU... as Apple found out. Look at why they had to change from Lightning cables to USB C,

In my business, the US has to comply with EU rules on engineering design and standards. We won't be able to avoid these. I We don't have a free trade agreement with the EU, we have a trade agreement.. there is nothing free about it. The non-tariff charges are crippling our companies because the trade agreements with other countries don't compensate for the lost trade with the EU. It's not a positive of Brexit - our negotiating position is far weaker alone than as part of a large trading block. If we want a trade agreement with India we will need to accept free movement of people from India to the UK... sound familiar?

I'm interested to know what foreign law overrides ours?

EU law is foreign law.

Robbie · February 2

31 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

Incidentally, by leaving we lost all control over reforming the EU to make it better. We had a significantly greater than 1 in 28 voice as we led a coalition of north European states including the Low Countries, those Scandinavian countries in the EU often allied to Germany, in discussions against France, Italy etc. We were also the conduit for the US to work with the EU and so had a disproportionate influence in Washington. We have seen in the way Trump and Biden have treated May, Johnson and Sunak that we are no longer considered relevant there... we are handy for helping lob a few missiles onto Middle Eastern rebels when told to do so, but not a lot else.

We are left with little influence and a weak negotiating position. Thanks to Johnson, we are seen as unreliable international partners who are willing to break international law and agreements. This further reduces our soft power and makes us less attractive to deal with. We are in a mess and that is entirely down to Johnson, Farage and their disciples (who have mostly done very nicely for themselves out of it).

Who's interested in reforming the EU? It needs to die.

As for influence. It was Boris Johnson who led the West in their response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Now we have Sunak, a compliant WEF puppet installed by the IMF, when they banded together to get rid of Truss. As for influence, we have a seat on the UN security council with veto power. Something the EU is craving for and will never get. Von Leyden goes around the World strutting her stuff. I don't want her representing the UK or any other EU nincompooper either.

The EU is in crisis, the farmers, Poland, Hungary, the AFD rise in Germany the rise of populist parties around the EU. The EU Parliament may have a majority of these anti EU parties sitting there. Hope they give Von Leyden a big head ache.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · February 2

29 minutes ago, Robbie said:

Who's interested in reforming the EU? It needs to die.

As for influence. It was Boris Johnson who led the West in their response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Now we have Sunak, a compliant WEF puppet installed by the IMF, when they banded together to get rid of Truss. As for influence, we have a seat on the UN security council with veto power. Something the EU is craving for and will never get. Von Leyden goes around the World strutting her stuff. I don't want her representing the UK or any other EU nincompooper either.

The EU is in crisis, the farmers, Poland, Hungary, the AFD rise in Germany the rise of populist parties around the EU. The EU Parliament may have a majority of these anti EU parties sitting there. Hope they give Von Leyden a big head ache.

You will find that it's France who are keeping the EU from the permanent seats at the Security Council (as they are effectively their representative there), and I would imagine that's how it will stay... but make no mistake, we are only there for historical reasons and because we can be reliably counted upon to do whatever the US requires. Once the US stops seeing us as the useful patsy, we will be gone. We really have no business being on there anyway - our armed forces are insignificant, our economy is too small and we wield little influence now. India probably have a better claim..

I could have sworn it was the Tory party who installed Sunak, after Truss tanked the economy and all realistic chance of winning the next election disappeared. It had nothing to do with the IMF, just Tory self preservation and the financial institutions (pension companies and banks) losing faith. I think you see conspiracy in too many places, this was plain and simple cock up on the Tory party's part.

Anyway, this is getting us nowhere... Little Englanders are in control for now, but at some point we will need to look to our friends abroad, if we have any left. I am happy to wait for the time when sense prevails again.

Robbie · February 2

55 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

You will find that it's France who are keeping the EU from the permanent seats at the Security Council (as they are effectively their representative there), and I would imagine that's how it will stay... but make no mistake, we are only there for historical reasons and because we can be reliably counted upon to do whatever the US requires. Once the US stops seeing us as the useful patsy, we will be gone. We really have no business being on there anyway - our armed forces are insignificant, our economy is too small and we wield little influence now. India probably have a better claim..

I could have sworn it was the Tory party who installed Sunak, after Truss tanked the economy and all realistic chance of winning the next election disappeared. It had nothing to do with the IMF, just Tory self preservation and the financial institutions (pension companies and banks) losing faith. I think you see conspiracy in too many places, this was plain and simple cock up on the Tory party's part.

Anyway, this is getting us nowhere... Little Englanders are in control for now, but at some point we will need to look to our friends abroad, if we have any left. I am happy to wait for the time when sense prevails again.

A liberal progressive Bank of England governor who's a patsy of the IMF and global order. The Labour lite side of the Tory Party who got rid of Truss on the orders of the WEF, who then installed another Patsy of the IMF, WEF and global elites, someone that the EU wanted installed too.

And I thought the EU wasn't a Country. How do they have business being on the Security Council?

But the EU is becoming a federal Country isn't it. Is that what you really want because, when asked that question, the majority in the UK don't want that, because that would mean adopting the Euro & European Central Bank over the Bank of England also joining the shengghan area with no borders.

Is that what you want?

And the UK does have a powerful military, we have 4 Trident Two Missile Nuclear submarines where just one of them has more destructive power than the destructive power seen in WW2.

That is what keeps us safe from our potential enemies.

And, why do you appear to always put your own Country down, enlighten me because it is hard to understand?

Robbie · February 2

@Ohh Tommy Johnson

FYI

Robbie · February 2

**Piethagoram** · February 3

**Piethagoram** · February 3

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