BREXIT.....

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

2 hours ago, Robbie said:

It's time the EU really minded it's own business when it comes to the internal affairs of the UK.

Silly' EU blasted for lecturing UK on when to hold an election

EXCLUSIVE: Brexiteer Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg has blasted the EU after its diplomats were said to be "grumbling" about the UK's general election timetable.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1858827/EU-UK-election-date-European-Political-Community

Sorry @Robbie this is a comic take from a comic newspaper

No EU diplomats are actually named, just hearsay......

We are probably the only European country that doesn't have fixed term election dates. 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

2 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

Sorry @Robbie this is a comic take from a comic newspaper

No EU diplomats are actually named, just hearsay......

We are probably the only European country that doesn't have fixed term election dates. 

There's always plenty of hearsay from the Remain side, especially the Guardian.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

Brexit Fever hits Europe.

Anti-European’ populists on track for big gains in EU elections, says report.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/24/anti-european-populists-on-track-for-big-gains-in-eu-elections-says-report

7 hours ago, Piethagoram said:

 

Byline times, a hard left, EU loving organization with an agenda. Hardly a creditable news source.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

C'mon @Robbie "Byline times, a hard left, EU loving organization with an agenda."..... where have you got that from? GB News, The Express

You are obviously happy to pay more tax as HMRC has reduced tax revenues with all these companies moving to the EU!

I'm still waiting to hear from you what Brexit benefits are derived from the Leigh on Sea shellfish! Perhaps you can explain in greater detail

As regards polling surveys for the EU Parliament...thought Brexiteers deemed the EU anti democratic..... funny that

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

21 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

C'mon @Robbie "Byline times, a hard left, EU loving organization with an agenda."..... where have you got that from? GB News, The Express

You are obviously happy to pay more tax as HMRC has reduced tax revenues with all these companies moving to the EU!

I'm still waiting to hear from you what Brexit benefits are derived from the Leigh on Sea shellfish! Perhaps you can explain in greater detail

As regards polling surveys for the EU Parliament...thought Brexiteers deemed the EU anti democratic..... funny that

Sorry mate. I don't have to explain anything. The debate was won and lost leading up to the EU referendum in 2016. The majority made their choice  Brexiteers have moved on, apart from castigating this government for not fully exploiting the benefits of us being free to make our own decisions.

Brexiteers have never had a problem with a free trade agreement with the EU, which we have, but the EU must adhere with our standards too. Not dictate their own.

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

Sorry @Robbie

"Sorry mate. I don't have to explain anything"... I asked a specific question on Leigh on Sea. Surely it's respectful for you to answer!

"The debate was won and lost leading up to the EU referendum in 2016"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/31/brexit-lies-tory-billionaire-guy-hands-uk-eu-economy

Are you comfortable with the "Brexit lies", Vote Leave breaking Electoral Rules or the choice, as of democracy. to change its mind?

"castigating this government for not fully exploiting the benefits of us being free to make our own decisions." So how does Brexit benefit you personally and the UK as a country. Australia are laughing at us at the "trade deal" destroying UK agriculture.

UK has to respect international law, do you agree that?

"but the EU must adhere with our standards too. Not dictate their own." UK has to respect EU standards if we are to export to them. Would you be happy with EFTA free trade regulations?

 

 

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

14 hours ago, Robbie said:

There's always plenty of hearsay from the Remain side, especially the Guardian.

There is, and they out their spin on it too.  The trick is to look beyond the spin and determine what the probable issue is.  With this one, my view is that someone in the EU said 'Hey Richy, We are panning a summit, it would be great to cover immigration.  Any ideas when you are planning the election?', They know they can't influence when it should be, but I can imagine there are authorities around the world wanting to know what's happening so they can make their plans.  A storm in a tea cup.  

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

2 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

Sorry @Robbie

"Sorry mate. I don't have to explain anything"... I asked a specific question on Leigh on Sea. Surely it's respectful for you to answer!

"The debate was won and lost leading up to the EU referendum in 2016"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/31/brexit-lies-tory-billionaire-guy-hands-uk-eu-economy

Are you comfortable with the "Brexit lies", Vote Leave breaking Electoral Rules or the choice, as of democracy. to change its mind?

"castigating this government for not fully exploiting the benefits of us being free to make our own decisions." So how does Brexit benefit you personally and the UK as a country. Australia are laughing at us at the "trade deal" destroying UK agriculture.

UK has to respect international law, do you agree that?

"but the EU must adhere with our standards too. Not dictate their own." UK has to respect EU standards if we are to export to them. Would you be happy with EFTA free trade regulations?

 

 

There you go with your questions and the usual Remainer mantra of Brexit lies.

Well let me ask you this, 

Why do Remainers always put a foreign entity and it's interests before their own Country.

Why don't you all back the UK instead of backing a foreign entity?

You should be all be respecting the wishes of the majority who voted Brexit by backing Britain and putting all your effort into making Brexit work, rather than defending and supporting a foreign entity at every turn.

 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

8 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

There is, and they out their spin on it too.  The trick is to look beyond the spin and determine what the probable issue is.  With this one, my view is that someone in the EU said 'Hey Richy, We are panning a summit, it would be great to cover immigration.  Any ideas when you are planning the election?', They know they can't influence when it should be, but I can imagine there are authorities around the world wanting to know what's happening so they can make their plans.  A storm in a tea cup.  

Aren't you the slightest concerned about what's going on in Poland, where an EU supported & sponsored PM is attacking democracy in that Country?

Well it seems that voters in the rest of the EU are, with populist parties set to make huge gains in Germany & around the EU.

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

Sorry mate. I don't have to explain anything. The debate was won and lost leading up to the EU referendum in 2016. The majority made their choice  Brexiteers have moved on, apart from castigating this government for not fully exploiting the benefits of us being free to make our own decisions.

Brexiteers have never had a problem with a free trade agreement with the EU, which we have, but the EU must adhere with our standards too. Not dictate their own.

 

It doesn't work like that.  We will require the EU companies to meet our standards, they will expect us to meet their standards. We have set the standard in food by lowering the requirements on, for example, hormones in beef which means we will get cheap, but lower quality beef from Australia.  The EU do not want that in their food chain, so they will need to impose additional checks on our farmers to ensure the beef doesn't pass through our farmers and into the EU.  Our farmers will need to meet EU standards to sell there.  There is nothing to stop them exporting to Australia or the US, except they can't be competitive there due to the nature of their farms and the lower standards they have imposed on them.  So the EU won't be imposing their standards on us, but will require us to meet them in order to sell there. 

That is separate to a Free Trade Agreement...that is where they can insist that in order to avoid tariffs etc we would need to agree to, for example, the free movement of people. There is our problem.  Our economy is so small compared to the EU we will have great difficulty in avoiding such measures.  That would be the same whoever we are trying to make an agreement with.  The agreement with India allows free movement from India to the UK, the one with the US requires us to take goods that would adversely impact our industires - chlorinated chicken for example. 

I feel the Brexiteers have moved on because they don't want to deal with the mess - a bit like driving away from a car crash.  The Remainers are still at the scene trying to work out how to clear the mess up. If politics were just a binary decision made at one point in time never to be revisited, then we would have stopped having elections in the 1830s once the decision had been made.  We should always be looking back at past decisions, working out what could be done better and how we improve things.  As I said, we aren't rejoining any time soon, but just putting fingers in our ears, yelling 'Soverignty, independence' isn't going to help.  We need to be practical and make this work.  Until we actually discuss the true impact of Brexit we will never move forwards.

 

 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

Hey @Robbie

Is this you by that bus!

 

 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

5 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

It doesn't work like that.  We will require the EU companies to meet our standards, they will expect us to meet their standards. We have set the standard in food by lowering the requirements on, for example, hormones in beef which means we will get cheap, but lower quality beef from Australia.  The EU do not want that in their food chain, so they will need to impose additional checks on our farmers to ensure the beef doesn't pass through our farmers and into the EU.  Our farmers will need to meet EU standards to sell there.  There is nothing to stop them exporting to Australia or the US, except they can't be competitive there due to the nature of their farms and the lower standards they have imposed on them.  So the EU won't be imposing their standards on us, but will require us to meet them in order to sell there. 

That is separate to a Free Trade Agreement...that is where they can insist that in order to avoid tariffs etc we would need to agree to, for example, the free movement of people. There is our problem.  Our economy is so small compared to the EU we will have great difficulty in avoiding such measures.  That would be the same whoever we are trying to make an agreement with.  The agreement with India allows free movement from India to the UK, the one with the US requires us to take goods that would adversely impact our industires - chlorinated chicken for example. 

I feel the Brexiteers have moved on because they don't want to deal with the mess - a bit like driving away from a car crash.  The Remainers are still at the scene trying to work out how to clear the mess up. If politics were just a binary decision made at one point in time never to be revisited, then we would have stopped having elections in the 1830s once the decision had been made.  We should always be looking back at past decisions, working out what could be done better and how we improve things.  As I said, we aren't rejoining any time soon, but just putting fingers in our ears, yelling 'Soverignty, independence' isn't going to help.  We need to be practical and make this work.  Until we actually discuss the true impact of Brexit we will never move forwards.

 

 

We are never going to agree.

The UK is an independent sovereign country now, able to make it's own decisions in the World, putting our interests first above any other. There is no symbolic EU flag flying beside our flag on public building, no EU flag behind our PM when he addresses the nation. The EU President no longer represents us abroad. We are no longer a part of a POLITICAL Union that wants to be a United States of Europe one day.

Thank God we are not just one in a union of 28 anymore.

The EU dominated by Germany, is a shrinking economy on the World stage. The UK have opportunities now that we would never have had under the straightjacket of the EU.

And it's always the Remainer mantra to work in pairs to attack any Brexiteer who happens to challenge them, just like on here.

No matter, Brexiteers know that we made the right decision, it's very sad that a diminishing number still cannot accept the UK's decision to get our County back.

4 minutes ago, Piethagoram said:

Hey @Robbie

Is this you by that bus!

 

 

Is that respectful debate?

I think not. FBPE lose the argument again

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@Piethagoram @Ohh Tommy Johnson Two Remoaners working in pairs against one Brexiteer. Nothing changes.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

Hey @Robbie

Not being disrespectful, when you are not willing to answer my Leigh on Sea question, nor whether it is right for the UK to respect international law, or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners...instead we could have been sold to a consortium with a convicted fraudster... but as a UK fraudster, would that be OK by you?

@Ohh Tommy Johnson has given an intelligent and comprehensive response.

How are the UK borders stronger with our own sovereignty?

 

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

1 minute ago, Piethagoram said:

Hey @Robbie

Not being disrespectful, when you are not willing to answer my Leigh on Sea question, nor whether it is right for the UK to respect international law, or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners...instead we could have been sold to a consortium with a convicted fraudster... but as a UK fraudster, would that be OK by you?

@Ohh Tommy Johnson has given an intelligent and comprehensive response.

How are the UK borders stronger with our own sovereignty?

 

No matter what my answer would be, you would not accept my answer, Remoaners never do. All you would do is come with another question or go on a big spiel about how bad Brexit is and how good the EU is.

You can both argue to Kingdom come but you can't change the fact that the symbolic flag of the EU no longer flies officially in the UK. This Country joins Countries like USA, Canada, India, Brazil, Indonesia, South Africa, Nigeria, Argentina & Mexico being a sovereign independent Country not tied to a Political Union.

We should all rejoice for that.

[DangerousSausage]

Play nicely please - I know better than most how emotive this is, but let's not get personal. 

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

There you go with your questions and the usual Remainer mantra of Brexit lies.

Well let me ask you this, 

Why do Remainers always put a foreign entity and it's interests before their own Country.

Why don't you all back the UK instead of backing a foreign entity?

You should be all be respecting the wishes of the majority who voted Brexit by backing Britain and putting all your effort into making Brexit work, rather than defending and supporting a foreign entity at every turn.

 

They don't (speaking for myself).  We live in a global, interconnected world and cannot operate in isolation.  We need to co-operate and look for win-win solutions.  As part of the EU that was much easier as we had influence in the world.  We were one of the big 3 (probably the big 2) players in the EU, and as such were a voice within the EU for countries like the US and the English speaking Asia Pacific.  Leaving the EU we lost that, which was not good for our country.  As an influential part of a big body we were also able to protect our businesses more effectively, whilst giving them access to a local and open market.  We have lost that, and as the trade deal with Australia shows, in a poor negotiating position to protect our own interests.  In fact, it could be argued that Brexit has actually resulted in the interests of other countries being promoted above our own.  I fully back the UK, but we need to work with, not against, other countries.  

I don't know enough about the politics in Poland at the moment, but my understanding is that Tusk is trying to role back the anti democratic changes his right wing predecessor brought in.  I will try to educate myself on that point though.  The EU isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination - you have Orban in Hungary holding the rest of the block to ransom at the moment (something we could, but chose not to do), you have the AfD on the rise in Germany and Meloni in Italy.  The latter is, of course leading Mussolini's  party and should be a concern for everyone.  The EU needs reform, but that is nothing to do with us now. Brexit is a populist movement. 

The trouble with populism is that everything is boiled down to simple vacuous slogans - 'Make America Great Again', 'Take back control', 'Independent Sovereign Country'. What do the actually mean?  Populism creates in groups and out groups and treats everything in simple binary terms.  This has been the case ever since Girolamo Savonarola in 15th century Florence.  It always eventually fails because it doesn't deal with the nuance.  Brexit is hugely nuanced and complex and can't be dealt with in simple terms.  Until Brexiteers realise that we can't move forwards.

As always @Robbie I appreciate your thought provoking and measured arguments.  It challenges my thinking, and that is a good thing.  I hope our points do likewise for you, and whilst we don't agree, it is the way to reach a common understanding of our respective positions. 

 

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

1 hour ago, Robbie said:

We are never going to agree.

The UK is an independent sovereign country now, able to make it's own decisions in the World, putting our interests first above any other. There is no symbolic EU flag flying beside our flag on public building, no EU flag behind our PM when he addresses the nation. The EU President no longer represents us abroad. We are no longer a part of a POLITICAL Union that wants to be a United States of Europe one day.

Thank God we are not just one in a union of 28 anymore.

The EU dominated by Germany, is a shrinking economy on the World stage. The UK have opportunities now that we would never have had under the straightjacket of the EU.

And it's always the Remainer mantra to work in pairs to attack any Brexiteer who happens to challenge them, just like on here.

No matter, Brexiteers know that we made the right decision, it's very sad that a diminishing number still cannot accept the UK's decision to get our County back.

Is that respectful debate?

I think not. FBPE lose the argument again

I've done the 'independent bit already, so won't do that again.

The EU was dominated by the UK and Germany with France powerful too.  We were one of the most influential countries, hence we had a rebate nobody else had, we didn't join the Euro etc.  It isn't a shrinking economy either, just not growing as fast as others... but 1% growth in a £500billion market is more than a 10% increase in a £5billion market.

@Piethagoram and I are not working in tandem - I have no idea who they are. I suspect it more reflects the current position of the country - the is a lot of Bregret out there.  Ask the farmers and farmers to start with.

[Robbie 𝕏 @Robbie_NCFC]

@Ohh Tommy Johnson As I said previously, I don't want to get dragged into endless debate about Brexit. I've had enough of it on X. This is primarily a Notts supporting sports forum, and that's why I joined it.

I'm not one of those looking inward. I would love to see free trade agreements with all 192 Countries if it were possible.

Kenya for instance, their fruit and veg industry is growing, we already buy a growing number of their produce. That trade with Kenya is going to expand and it's not just Kenya, there are many Countries we can buy foodstuffs from at lower prices than the EU can offer. That's the beauty of Brexit. And you never mentioned the EU flag. National flags are a symbol of independence. One of MY biggest motivations was getting rid of that EU flag. The UK is not just a star among other stars. Our Union flag is the one and only star.

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

8 minutes ago, Robbie said:

@Ohh Tommy Johnson As I said previously, I don't want to get dragged into endless debate about Brexit. I've had enough of it on X. This is primarily a Notts supporting sports forum, and that's why I joined it.

I'm not one of those looking inward. I would love to see free trade agreements with all 192 Countries if it were possible.

Kenya for instance, their fruit and veg industry is growing, we already buy a growing number of their produce. That trade with Kenya is going to expand and it's not just Kenya, there are many Countries we can buy foodstuffs from at lower prices than the EU can offer. That's the beauty of Brexit. And you never mentioned the EU flag. National flags are a symbol of independence. One of MY biggest motivations was getting rid of that EU flag. The UK is not just a star among other stars. Our Union flag is the one and only star.

I've never even thought about the flag.  I like the UK flag, and I'm ambivalent about the EU flag.  I like seeing the Union flag flying, it makes me proud to be British... but I never thought the EU flag was anything denoting more than membership of a club, so seeing it missing is rather irrelevant to me - in fact I hadn't noticed!!  I hope we don't get to the stage the US are with flags though, that is toxic. I think we were heading there under Johnson's government where every minister was stood in front of increasingly large flags.  It seemed childish to me. The flying or otherwise of flags is really not that important to me.... it's a flag.                                                                                                

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

22 minutes ago, Robbie said:

@Ohh Tommy Johnson As I said previously, I don't want to get dragged into endless debate about Brexit. I've had enough of it on X. This is primarily a Notts supporting sports forum, and that's why I joined it.

I'm not one of those looking inward. I would love to see free trade agreements with all 192 Countries if it were possible.

Kenya for instance, their fruit and veg industry is growing, we already buy a growing number of their produce. That trade with Kenya is going to expand and it's not just Kenya, there are many Countries we can buy foodstuffs from at lower prices than the EU can offer. That's the beauty of Brexit. And you never mentioned the EU flag. National flags are a symbol of independence. One of MY biggest motivations was getting rid of that EU flag. The UK is not just a star among other stars. Our Union flag is the one and only star.

Africa does present great opportunities for trade and investment.