Gareth Southgate. What Now? (edit....Southgate resigned 16July24)

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

After the Huge Disappointment of an English Defeat in another Euro's Final, what does the Future hold for Gareth Southgate? His current contract runs until December this year, but I would hope he realises that His Time Is Up as the National Teams Head Coach. Of course Southgate is the Darling of the F.A. he always does as he's told, but Eight Years is Long Enough and two Runners Ups medals is Nothing, Nobody Remembers who came Second in a Tournament, and as the Old Saying Goes, You Get Nowt For Being Second.

Who to Replace him with? Well as I have said before it has to be an Englishman as in my opinion No Foreign Coach is going to be able to Whip up the ENTHUSIAM to lead a a Country other than his own, No matter his Track Record. The two leading English Managers/ Head Coaches either Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche. Both have Managed in the Lower Leagues both know what it's like to fight a Relegation Battle and for a large part of their Careers have been at Clubs were their Transfers have been on a Shoe String Budget. Think what they might achieve with all the Talent England have at the Moment.

But will Southgate continue to be as Stubborn and be determined  to Hold and Hang onto his Present Position. If so Gareth I have just this to say to you,( and I'm Para phrasing here) As Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament, Leopold Amery to Neville Chamberlain and David Davis to Boris Johnson. In The Name Of God GO.

 

[Robbie]

In 1966 Jimmy Greaves was looked upon as the best striker England had available, but Alf Ramsey put aside reputations, & was bold enough to replace him with Geoff Hurst for the final, & the rest is history.

Southgate is not a bold Manager, Kane looked tired or unfit, but Southgate continued to pick him on reputation  even though England looked better with Ollie Watkins. 

Southgate is too conventional and he's unwilling to take a chance and would rather play safe.

His play safe tactics came to the fore again in the final. England equalised then went all defensive again, as if they were holding out for extra time, instead of trying to win the game.

That's why he has to go. We need a winner for an England manager not a manager more concerned with not losing.

[liampie]

roberto martinez would not even sub ronaldo, but the thing about southgate he needs to be braver and more decisive.

it was clear that harry kane was not working but i think some managers feel that can change at any moment. kane was not the only issue with how england performed, he has become an easy escape goat that is being blamed. a large portion of it is fair, but its like southgate he sees things differently to us. cole palmer needs to integrated into the squad. i would like to see our national team being able to switch in game to 2-3 different formations.

one of which is to play two strikers, as i think kane cant always play this role by himself. we need someone like watkins who has pace.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

The Thing is @liampie The England Fans can see this, the Pundits can see this, So I Beg to Ask why can't Southgate and to a certain extent the F.A ?Who Must make their New Coach a Man who knows How To Play Under Pressure and get the Very Best out of his Players and make them Perform beyond their current Playing Level. Hence my pick(s) for the New England Coach Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche.

I also agree with you regarding Harry Kane, he as been made a Scapegoat. He came into this Tournament carrying a Back Injury, it's No Good having a Player who is not 100% Fit. What Southgate should have done was play Kane in the first Group match then rested him, until the Knock out stages and see how he went from there, That way both Palmer and Watkins would have had their chance to show off their skills earlier and give Southgate Food for Thought. But No Southgate just sticks with an unfit Kane, So not did he only ruin England with his Poor Tactics but also put a Big Dent in Kane's reputation. Plus every Coach should know, You Never Get Much Joy from Playing a Single Striker Up Front.

[Robbie]

@Wheelbarrow repair man

We don't know if Southgate has been told to play a certain way by the FA.

It seems strange that he plays the same way all the time. If we are drawing it is a game of cat and mouse, if England get in front it is shut up shop time, if we go behind it's all out attack.

If it gets to extra time, if we are drawing it's playing for penalties, if we are winning, we go defensive.

It's just a cautious, negative & safe approach most of the time. Does this come down from the FA & Southgate just does as he is told?

[KB1862]

I've often been critical of Southgate but only because the way he sets up tactically isn't up to scratch. His in game management is poor as we've seen with late substitutions, lack of changes and not being able to make the necessary changes to impact the game. He just doesn't have the ability to do so. This got exposed in the games against Croatia in the 2018 World Cup semi final and against Italy in the Euro 2020 final. 

However, what I will say for Southgate to his credit is that he made supporting England joyful again (tactics aside). What Southgate did was he ended the cliques that have hindered the National team for years and changed the perception of how the fans see the England squad by humanising the players. Everything he has done off the pitch has been remarkable and no matter how much people criticise him (myself included) he deserves praise for doing that. He took over an England side that were at the lowest of lows following a humiliating defeat to Iceland in Euro 2016, everyone was at rock bottom but he came in addressed the issue and took us from rock bottom to where we are now.

I do feel like it is time for Southgate to step down as England manager though. He has laid the foundations for success but he's taken us as far as he can. I don't think he's capable of getting over that line, under Southgate we'll always be that nearly team but the foundations have been set by Southgate for someone to come in and get us over that line. 

With the group of players he now has at his disposal, this tournament was a huge missed opportunity. I don't think the players are suited to his way of playing and I don't think he's suited to the players he has. 

8 hours ago, Robbie said:

In 1966 Jimmy Greaves was looked upon as the best striker England had available, but Alf Ramsey put aside reputations, & was bold enough to replace him with Geoff Hurst for the final, & the rest is history.

Southgate is not a bold Manager, Kane looked tired or unfit, but Southgate continued to pick him on reputation  even though England looked better with Ollie Watkins. 

Southgate is too conventional and he's unwilling to take a chance and would rather play safe.

His play safe tactics came to the fore again in the final. England equalised then went all defensive again, as if they were holding out for extra time, instead of trying to win the game.

That's why he has to go. We need a winner for an England manager not a manager more concerned with not losing.

100% agree with this. This is another example of what has let Southgate down as a manager, his loyalty to players has been detrimental to the squad.

7 hours ago, liampie said:

one of which is to play two strikers, as i think kane cant always play this role by himself. we need someone like watkins who has pace.

I've mentioned the prospect of doing this before. Kane likes to drop deep which is fine at times as he can distribute the ball but when he's a lone striker he can not be doing this and Southgate has needed to address this but when it happens every game, you have to think it's part of the tactics. Having someone like Watkins up top with Kane allows Kane to drop deep and Watkins to run in behind. It worked in the 2018 World Cup when Southgate played Sterling just off of Harry Kane. 

This is a worthwhile listen. They all hit the nail on the head when they talk about Southgate's future. 

7 hours ago, liampie said:

kane was not the only issue with how england performed, he has become an easy escape goat that is being blamed

Agreed. Southgate, by playing Kane when he doesn't look fit and even admitted after the game last night that he came into the tournament with a lack of games, has almost practically put Kane in the firing line rather than allowing him to recover or changing it up.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Robbie

The Worrying thing is,  the F.A  does still  have that massive influence over the England Head Coaches Job, from choosing who should lead the National Team and quite possibly the way the team is set up , it wouldn't Surprise me if Southgate was told to play a certain way, and him being the Good Chap he is, (alright a Yes Man) does as he's Told. Going back to another of my Topics the First England Manager Walter Winterbottom, was never allowed to Pick his own Team, that was left to a committee, could something like that still exist, even in this Day and Age? And something I've quoted before, from Brian Clough, the F.A. doesn't want me as England Manager because they're Frightened I'd take over and Run things Properly, and I would.

Look at Big Sam's tenure as the England Manager was he starting to do things his way? And a worried F.A Set Up the Media Sting to get Rid Of Him? If you watch any of Big Sam's interviews he comes across as his Own Man and that sort of Attitude wouldn't sit Well with Those In Power. In all Honesty I think the Final decision of should he Stay or should he Go will be taken by Southgate himself I don't think the F.A will put any Pressure on him, because he's their Darling and he doesn't Rock the Boat, just follows their Instructions.

[KB1862]

@Wheelbarrow repair man

Agree with the points you have made in this. Brian Clough was more than good enough to become England manager and quite possibly should have, taking nothing away from Sir Bobby Robson, but with the way Brian Clough was the FA wouldn't have been able to handle him the same way they would have wanted. He'd have done it his way and stuck to his guns never giving in to the pressure. 

I remember reading that about Walter Winterbottom in a book and wasn't it Alf Ramsay who came in and stamped his authority on the FA and told them he should be the one to select teams rather than a committee? 

Southgate does appear to be a yes man but I think the tactics are his own, being a defender himself. Whether it's true or not only Southgate and the FA will know. 

[Piethagoram]

 

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

I Don't Think Jurgen would want the England Job. I'm Pretty Certain He'll have a Year or So Sabbatical Then Go On and Manage the German National Side.

[KB1862]

@Piethagoram

Having a German in charge of the England National team doesn't quite sound right but Klopp could be what this crop of England talent need. His style of play and the way he sets his teams up could really get the best out of the players. I agree with @Wheelbarrow repair man I think the only thing that would tempt him would be the German National team. 

[liampie]

i dont care that jurgen klopp is german, i am sure he would do the role proudly and with honour. i just dont think foreign coaches are the best fit. if we were to look elsewhere, klopp is one i would agree with. knowing england, we will end up with roberto martinez due to his experience having managed belgium and portugal. amongst the english clubs he managed, but again i think it would be the wrong decision.

i am not sure what english managers i would like, eddie howe would be great one day but not right now.

[KB1862]

@liampie

I think he would do it with honour of course, he's spent enough years here to love the place particularly Liverpool. But, being a German in charge of England if things go bad the criticism will be off the scales due to this reason. 

There's not many English managers to take chances on really. Eddie Howe, who you've mentioned, is the clear choice when talking of English managers. Behind him there's Graham Potter and probably Sean Dyche in the mix. Other than them, there's the likes of Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney. None of which stand out as a potential England manager. 

We just don't seem to produce many English managers to do a job like the likes of Spain do. So I think a foreign option could be the way to go but it has to be someone who has worked in this country and system before. Pochettino doesn't get enough mentions. Ange Postecoglu is another that could be worth a punt on. 

Lee Carsley will be the man the FA take a gamble on to succeed Southgate given his work with the u21s.

 

[Piethagoram]

 

[Robbie]

You don't get anything for getting to a semi final or final without winning it.

England were lucky to get the weakest side of the draw in Euro 24 and when it mattered, Southgate couldn't deliver.

Three years ago in our HOME tournament he couldn't deliver.

How many teams do we remember getting to the League Cup and FA Cup Semi Finals and Finals but fail to win it?

The MSMedia try to concentrate peoples minds on semi finals & finals because there's nothing else to celebrate.

Southgate is NOT successful because he has failed to win a tournament period.

He has to be replaced with someone who is going to be bold enough to make the tough decisions on player selection. That would be a step in the right direction.

But at the end of the day, while the FA allows so many foreign players in PL club squads, England will find it very hard, or near on impossible, to win a tournament with the lack of English players playing regularly at the top level.

Jürgen Klopp nor any other foreign manager will not solve that conundrum.

Only the FA itself can give England a better chance of winning by reducing drastically, the number of foreign players allowed to be in a PL club squad,  but I don't see it ever happening.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Robbie

Spot on Sir, everything you've stated in your comment is correct.

The Sam Cunningham Post listed above fails to Mention the Fact that despite Southgate's Record He's Won NOTHING.!! He also Failed to Mentioned the Fact Southgate Got England Relegated in the Nations Cup. It's Amazing how England are Celebrated for coming Second. I Guess that's the One Thing England and Britain is the Best In The World At Coming Second or Third. And what would have happened if England had Won the Euro's? I'll Tell You.

The Main Stream Media would be Fawning Around Kissing Southgate's Arse, Praising Him to the Heavens, Putting Him and the Players on a High Pedestal, But Once They Lost a Game or Put in A Bad Performance against a side Lower than Them in the World Rankings. Out Would Come The Knives, and We'd be presented with Headlines Calling for Southgate to be Sacked, and certain Players Never being allowed to Pull On An England Shirt Again.

You only have to Look at The Lionesses, when the Girls Won the Euro's everything was Great. Media and Fans were full of Praise, they have a Couple of Iffy Results And It's the End of Women's Football. That's the Problem with the Gutter Press Do Well and You're Up There, the Thing is then They Look For An Excuse to Knock You Down Again.

[Robbie]

@Wheelbarrow repair man

After we won the World Cup Ramsey could walk on water till his first defeat after the World Cup win was against the old enemy, Scotland.

Then the knives were out for him, so much so that a quarter finals defeat against West Germany in Mexico 1970 after England were 2:0 up then lost 2:3, proved to be the end for him

[Piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram]

Henning Wehn twitter

Should @FA pick me as the next manager you have my word England will be playing 4–4–effing–2.

[DangerousSausage]

He always looked like he was going to go. For all his achievements (and reaching two finals IS an achievement), it's time for some new ideas. Someone who can replicate the togetherness of the Southgate years, but can strike the right balance between caution and boldness and get more out of our creative players. Not you, Wayne Rooney.

[Robbie]

@Wheelbarrow repair man

If you were on X you would see the hero worship going on for Southgate, for what he has done for England.

They need a reality check. He won absolutely nothing. You don't get anything for being a finalist or a semifinalist.

I'm glad he's gone to be honest and we need someone in charge who is going to take the difficult decisions & be able to say to some of the players, thanks but England needs to move on without you.

The new England Manager needs to do things his way and not the FAs way. I'd like to see him look at players in the Championship as well as the PL.

I don't want the new Manager to be a yes man either, but we know very well that all my wishes will not be realised.The FA will appoint the perennial yes man who will do as he is told.

Nothing will change because the league rules prevent the large number of English players that we need to make England competitive with Spain and Germany for example.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Robbie

I Honestly can say I can do without any type of  (Un) Social Media Platforms in My Life, and Becoming a Mindless Zombie who needs People to Click a the Like Button on their Comment just to get a Rush. Apologies to you I wasn't saying that you're a Mindless Zombie, just people who Never come off X of Facebook Tik Tok or Whatever and only Live for other people to say nice things about them.

 if I Get Angry at a Remark or Comment I Stay Silent and Step away for a Few Days until I've Cooled Down, Despite the Fact I could Quite Likely Rip that Persons Argument to Pieces. It's Not Worth It. It's Best to Debate people when You are Cool Calm and in Control of your Feelings. There are things I consider Taboo, one of the Main Things Keep Politics Out Of Sport and Off This Website. You May Have Guessed That.

Sorry I'm Rambling and Going off Topic. I'm in Full Agreement regarding the New England Head Coach Position, I've already made my Feelings Known. It doesn't Surprise Me Southgate is Getting all this Praise, but once the New Man is Appointed, Gareth Will Be Forgotten About He'll Be Old News. Because That's The Way The World Works, Always As Done Always Will Do.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@DangerousSausage

You can Also Add Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard To Your List.  Because along with Rooney none have really set  the Head Coach Positions they've had alight have they?

Yes I know Gerrard Won the Scottish Premier League but in a Two Horse Race ( with Celtic) it's Not Very Difficult to Win when your Main Rival is Rebuilding and there's just you two with the Best Financial Backing.

[KB1862]

Southgate was always going to step down as England manager after the Euros whether that was going out on a high by lifting the trophy or a low by losing in the final. I am glad though that it was left to Southgate to make his own decision though.

However, I agree with both @Robbie and @Wheelbarrow repair man both make very good points. Southgate just never got the job done despite falling on the easy side of the draw once again. I'll give Southgate his credit for getting us to these stages but with the squad at his disposal, we should be expected to reach these levels. The only exception was the 2018 World Cup where we over achieved. Even then it was a missed opportunity.

World Cup 86 - England lost to an Argentina team with Maradona. Both goals should have been ruled out.

World Cup 90 - Lost in the semi final to Germany on penalties.

Euro 96 - Beat a Netherlands team 4-1 that consisted of Van Der Sar, Kluivert, Seedorf, De Boer, Bergkamp. Lost to Germany in the semi final on penalties.

World Cup 98 - Took Argentina to penalties playing with 10 men for 70+ minutes and having a goal wrongly disallowed by Sol Campbell.

World Cup 2002 - Lost to Brazil (R9, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Cafu) 

Euro 2004 - France (Zidane, Henry, Trezeguet) Lost to Portugal (Rui Costa, Deco, CR7, Figo) despite having another perfectly good Sol Campbell goal disallowed.

World Cup 2006 - Lost to Portugal (Figo, Rui Costa, CR7).

These teams, especially the golden generation, were considered failures. Even despite managing to go toe to toe with some of the biggest teams around. 

Even when you consider the level of opposition in the tournaments Sam Cunningham mentions in @Piethagoram post. Germany in 2010, played both France and Italy in 2012, Italy and Uruguay in 2014. The only inexcusable one was 2016. 

Southgate's England in 29 games against teams ranked in the top 10 of the World Rankings have won just 7. In the last 3 tournaments when they've come up against the bigger teams, we've lost. Italy in 2021, France in 2022 and Spain in 2024. 

I'm all for the media and fans praising Southgate for what he's done in terms of harmonising the squad and fans, bringing the unity back to the Nation after hitting rock bottom in 2016 and reaching the stages he has but there needs to be perspective when claiming Southgate to be the best manager since Sir Alf Ramsay. Especially considering only Sir Bobby Robson (since Alf) has managed England for as long as Southgate has. But, back then the Euros only consisted of 8 teams rather than 24 that is today. 

Southgate's England have not come up against top level opposition like previous teams. It's been relatively straight forward or at least easier than previous tournaments. Even so, we came close to messing that up against Slovakia. 

[Chris]

Gareth Southgate has spoken twice about stepping down, although going into the Euros - it seemed likely that he would be standing by his word. I find it quite saddening because whilst he's not been perfect, he got the squad resembling a team we could be proud of. This tournament wasn't the best, perhaps the players knew? I can't suggest all the poor performances could have been down to nerves, wanting to end Southgate's reign as well as possible, but I would be mindful of it.

I don't think who takes over next has much to do, but at the same time I don't have much enthusiasm that we'll be able to see who could come in.

Most likely it will be a lacklustre appointment, I mean the candidates link already leaves me feeling like this.