Why should I go again?

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

15 hours ago, Piethagoram said:

We do really need a statement of intent from @poundpie ...if she is still a member of this forum, to reassure the faithful

 

That ship has sailed though hasn't it?

We've had statements - The Phoenix has risen, the black hole, boot room, the race to the finish line, 5 year plan, power-point Jedi etc... You would think this was some sci-fi, action thriller. It ain't, it's the pantomime of the last 6 or so years of ownership!

Time for a bit of action, no one is going to give you 8 mil for a club who can't pay their bills and attracts 2.5k fans!

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

@Super_Danny_Allsopp First action is removal of JS...reduced crowds at Meadow Lane is that product on show is not good enough. Not the owners fault, that JS has squandered the budget on journeymen

[Who r ya?? You Pies!!]

No sorry its starts at the top , then maybe down the chain they will have the tools to work with , who do you honestly think could come in and get significantly more out of these players ?? 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

@Who r ya?? You Pies!! I cannot accept the dross that JS has signed, I cannot trust him to sign a decent player whoever the owner is. Yes we need to be sold as without an affirmative commitment from the Trews, the club has to have all of us (team, supporters, back room staff, directors) pulling together

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

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Kyle Motson‏@kyle_motson

@Turkey_Twizzler I think he's talking to someone regarding a sale if it goes through fine but if not Ray will pay it off 100%

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

5 hours ago, Piethagoram said:

@Super_Danny_Allsopp First action is removal of JS...reduced crowds at Meadow Lane is that product on show is not good enough. Not the owners fault, that JS has squandered the budget on journeymen

I disagree. If you look at all the clubs that sack their manager as regularly as we do, they all have one thing in common - bad owners/ people at the top.

When you look at clubs that are run well, and when they sack their managers, 8 times out of 10 the sacked manager will have nothing but positives to say about the club and the owners, things such as 'it just didn't work out'. You can almost guarantee, with the exception of the power-point Jedi, that a lot of our managers, if allowed to speak freely, would have more than a few choice words to say.

If I thought sacking JS would achieve the slightest thing I'd be with you, but I don't see the next poor sod being able to accomplish anything whilst the powers that be remain.  

[Who r ya?? You Pies!!]

I'd just add , I think a significant amount of people that stay away now are also making a point of protest against the owner's as well as the poor product on display . 

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

I feel utterly ashamed of our home form...no spark, no creativity, we are supposed to be in the entertainment business....Only the die hards left

[Riverleeno Website URL Visit Site]

Steve Evans sums up for us how to get a club going

http://www.chad.co.uk/sport/football/mansfield-town/radford-ambition-for-championship-football-lured-new-boss-evans-1-8242637

@Piethagoram I agree going to watch Notts has been a chore recently, but the problem is if there was a new manager installed I can't see at the minute he would have any budget to use in January. In his most recent interview JS seems to finally accept players aren't playing well enough and he won't be immune to what is happening to attendances. 

This press release from the 'SLO' seems heartfelt but as @Super_Danny_Allsopp

[Riverleeno Website URL Visit Site]

..and @ivansneck say the club needs sorting from the top down, surely RT sees that 2400 home fans at a match is the sign of a club in free fall. As the current owner of the club/ business and custodian of Notts County FC he needs to provide some backing to JS publicly and reassurance to the fans that the tax bill will be paid as I think this confidence would then transfer through the manager to the players as the current situation must effect them to an extent.

[ivansneck]

I know Dougie Pullen very well, it is heartfelt and surely nobody wants Ray to walk away without a buyer having been found. What I want him to do is conclude a deal before Christmas at the latest. In other words before the next transfer window.

[Riverleeno Website URL Visit Site]

I agree with much of what he writes but with regard to the dwindling attendances it seems like emotional blackmail. It's Hobson's choice for the supporter.

[Fozzy]

The SLO has little respect on the terraces after calling fans despicable last season when on Matchtalk during the Fullarton debacle. I won't entertain anything the man says, he's burnt his bridges.

 

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

6 hours ago, Fozzy said:

The SLO has little respect on the terraces after calling fans despicable last season when on Matchtalk during the Fullarton debacle. I won't entertain anything the man says, he's burnt his bridges.

 

That is pretty much what you get when you appoint a SLO (who is supposed to be an intermediary between the club and fans (!!!!!)) that comes from an 'official' supporters club, that the owners made after they kicked out the Trust previously.

Mouthpiece. 

They needn't have bothered with this SLO, the Trews should have just written it themselves.


That statement absolutely reeks of 'tow the line or I'll destroy your club'. 

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Jacob Daniel: 
https://medium.com/@jacobncm/my-reply-to-dougie-pullen-e2ae90425735#.gsfvwxbiv

My reply to Dougie Pullen

Just as a little addition to my piece from Tuesday night, I felt that I had to post a riposte to Supporter Liaison Officer Dougie Pullen’s statement on the club’s official website today. A piece that was illogical, peddled misinformation and was a betrayal of the SLO’s role to communicate the supporters’ thoughts to the board as opposed to the other way around.

The statement can be read here http://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/dougie-pullen-slo-notts-county-3434828.aspx.

“I wonder how many football fans are aware that the Insolvency Law changed in 2015, or, if they are, whether they fully understand what the implications are for a football club of Notts County’s stature?

I ask the question because right now many are calling for owner Ray Trew to “get out of our Club”.”

Notts County once smashed the record for time spent in administration into a million pieces. We know how it works. We know what insolvency is. Although, as far as I can tell, changes to the insolvency law last year don’t make the blindest bit of difference to a football club.

“Let’s just suppose that he did ‘up sticks and walk’. What would happen next? An Administrator would have to be appointed. The Administrator would then have the responsibility of funding the Club’s £300K monthly wage bill until a buyer could be found and, indeed, would also be liable for all the debts incurred during the period of administration, a process which can last many months. The chances are that no-one, who would be willing to take on that responsibility, would be found. Instead, the Club would have to go into liquidation.”

Well, what would happen next if we entered administration? Perhaps most significantly for Ray Trew, he would no longer be in control of the club’s finances. He would have no guarantee of a repayment on his loans into the club at all, let alone anything higher than the fractional amounts normally negotiated with a Company Voluntary Arrangement.

We have been led to believe that most, if not all, of the club’s debt is owed to Ray Trew. By putting is into administration he would effectively be shooting himself in the foot for no real reason at all. That is, of course, unless debts to other businesses and HMRC have been allowed to accrue without our knowledge. Right now there is little to suggest that is the case, so talk of administration and insolvency is little more than mindless scaremongering.

To suggest that there is little chance of the club finding a buyer whilst in administration, however, is deeply misleading. It is far more likely that the club would find a buyer whilst in administration as the price and terms of the sale would no longer be dictated by the current owner. It would likely be cheaper, particularly if a CVA was negotiated. Not one Notts fan, however, should want to see this scenario come to pass. We have screwed over creditors in our past and should not want it to come to that again. We need to build bridges rather than torch them.

“In short — Notts County Football Club would no longer be the world’s oldest football league club. It would simply cease to exist.”

That depends, Dougie, on what you believe a football club to be. Clearly you see it as the bricks and mortar. The plastic seats. The cobwebs in the corners of the Kop. The sign on the top of the Jimmy Sirrel stand. A proud but largely meaningless entry into the history books.

I disagree with you. The soul of any football club lies with its fans. Even if your prophecy of doom were to come to pass, Notts would not cease to exist. We would reform, as others have, and would be spiritually the same club.

“Football fans become emotionally highly charged when their team isn’t doing well. They look for all sorts of ways to vent their frustration, at all sorts of people, and in all sorts of directions. The obvious focus of their frustration in the case of Notts County fans is the owner Ray Trew.”

What alternative are you offering here? There is one constant when it comes to decision making over the last few unsuccessful, soul destroying years. That constant isn’t me.

“Rightly or wrongly he is, and has been, blamed for everything that is going wrong at the Club, almost ever since he first paid £1 for the privilege of inheriting a vast debt to secure its future — a debt that was beyond most people’s imagination and which has multiplied over the ensuing years to the current level of needing to be ‘topped up’ to the tune of around £250,000 each month to keep the Club going.”

Of course he has. He’s the owner. He makes the decisions, sets the tone and plans the future for the club. The owners deservedly got the credit for the way that they came in to help save the club on the back of the Munto fiasco. They have been given credit on the rare occasion that their decision making has been up to scratch, just as they are given criticism when it fails them. Sadly the latter has just been all too common over a period of six years.

That is just how businesses work, i’m afraid. The fact that the club is, if your suggestion is correct, losing some £250,000 per month is a monument to how badly we are being managed from the boardroom. If Notts had been successful under Ray Trew then I suspect that he would be looking for a well earned profit on his investment. Sadly the opposite is true and we have moved worryingly backwards, hence the ongoing losses.

“To receive the abuse and threats which come his way must drive him to despair. Sure enough, he did reach the end of his tether last season and Ray let it be known that the Club was up for sale. It is one thing to have to fund the Club to the level that he does but something totally different for him and his family to be the target of disgusting e-mails which no-one should have to receive.”

I offer no defence of anyone who has sent any sort of abusive communication to Ray Trew or anyone else. I hope that they have been reported to the police and face the consequences of their actions. The choices of these idiots, however, should not be used as an excuse to suppress those of us asking genuine questions over a genuine fear for our club’s future.

“Personally, I don’t think Ray will walk out on Notts County although God knows that he has been sorely tempted to do so. He loves football and, despite everything, he won’t put Notts County into liquidation if he can possibly help it.”

I have no doubt that Ray loves football and desperately wanted this to be a success. I also have no doubt that he won’t put us into liquidation if he can possibly help it because it would be a catastrophic hit to both his finances and his reputation.

“He has spoken to interested parties and, no doubt, will continue to do so. But, until an actual sale has taken place, he won’t talk to the press or release a statement. He can’t. When negotiations surrounding a takeover take place, both parties are bound by confidentiality. He will admit he has had his fair share of parties showing an interest without having the slightest intention of seeing the deal through. We can only speculate as to why people do this but it certainly isn’t helpful when rumours circulate in the press, or on social media, raising fans’ hopes…only for them to be dashed.”

Was he bound by confidentiality when Tweeting the following in April?

“To set the record straight……..there are two serious buyers left in the hunt. All other buyers have been discarded.”

“Both have met my asking price and now its a race to the finish line. I expect a announcement will be forthcoming in days rather than weeks.”

False rumours circulating in the press about Danish billionaires or American baseball clubs are not helpful, though, I agree. On neither occasion did the club do anything to dampen down this speculation.

“So, in summary, I can tell fans that I am reliably informed that Notts County Football Club remains for sale and that Ray Trew will continue to talk to seriously-intended parties. In the meantime, I would just ask fans to ask themselves one question: “Would I be interested in buying a football club with dwindling crowds, which can only cause an already eye-watering debt to rise, and whose fans publically (sic) abuse the owner and his family?”

No, probably not. But nor would I have run the club in the way that it has been over the past six years. Nor would I have made the litany of terrible decisions that have led us into this mess. Nor would I have said that an announcement would be in “days” unless I was absolutely sure that was the case.

“To those who want “Trew out”, I would just say: “Be patient”. The most saleable Football Club is a successful one. And for it to be successful, all parties have to play their part; the owners, the directors, the players, the manager and his coaching staff, all those who work for Notts County Football Club and, just as importantly, the fans. No right-thinking Notts person, in any of these groups, should want to have to answer another question one day: “What part did you play in putting Notts County into liquidation?”

As far as I am concerned, Notts fans have had the patience of an entire sky full of saints. That it has taken this long for the **** to really hit the fan is astonishing. Notts County are not a successful football club right now and if we were then Ray Trew would not be looking to sell us. We are unsuccessful because Ray Trew and his appointments have made bad decision after bad decision over a number of years. This is his mess to sort out.

To suggest that supporters are risking the club being placed into liquidation purely for asking reasonable, rational questions of a business that is run appallingly is disrespectful and insulting.

https://medium.com/@jacobncm/my-reply-to-dougie-pullen-e2ae90425735#.gsfvwxbiv

[Who r ya?? You Pies!!]

What an article , well replied to in my opinion , well balanced and genuine , in its construction Jacob , what a damning mess .

[DangerousSausage]

Excellent piece by Jacob. The article by Ray Trew, sorry the SLO, was toe-curlingly bad.

One revelation is that the club's wage bill is 3.6 million pounds per year. Even when you consider that it's the overall wage bill and not just that for the first team, that is insane and a damning indictment of our transfer policy. I wonder if that makes us the biggest spenders in the division, especially when you consider that the average League Two player is on roughly 40k a year. Ours must be on double that at least.

If Ray Trew is having to "top up" our finances to the tine of 250k every month then it is frankly his fault. It's about time he realised that he's the man in charge and the buck stops with him. He is the one who has allowed our spending to spiral out of control with so little return.

I'm at the end of my tether with this now.

[Fozzy]

If he is having to put a million pounds a month into the club, it is a damning indictment in paying over the odds for journeymen. I actually thought we were going to move in the right direction before last season by planning to invest in young players, joining a development league, whilst having a footballing philosophy throughout the club sides. Unfortunately we had a head of recruitment that was shockingly bad and big headed, plus a manager who had a blatant disregard for defending but had a coaching staff forced upon him.

The idea in principle was right, the execution was very poor indeed. 

I will give Ricardo his due though, he got results for the most part at home games playing some lovely football, he just needed more conservatism away from home.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

@Fozzy I do know from a good source that Dave Kevan met Ricardo before his appointment

[ivansneck]

With Ricardo we should have gone to the NFL system of an offensive co-ordinator (Ricardo) and a defensive co-ordinator (someone else)

[Elite_pie]

2 hours ago, Fozzy said:

If he is having to put a million pounds a month into the club, it is a damning indictment in paying over the odds for journeymen.

A million pounds a month???  You'll give Mr Hardy heart failure if he reads that!  The figure mentioned to cover the shortfall was £250,000 per month.

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

if it turns out that JS has signed his players on inflated wages, then he should walk now. Jon Coleman at Stanley operates on a shoestring budget and their players are streets ahead of ours

[Piethagoram 𝕏 @piethagoram]

Rob Dorsett ‏@RobDorsettSky  1m1 minute ago

For those #notts fans asking-apologies. My sources have gone quiet on the takeover talks, despite repeated attempts. Hence my radio silence.

[Riverleeno Website URL Visit Site]

If not JAM tomorrow then in less than six weeks?