BREXIT.....

Robbie · January 24

8 minutes ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

Africa does present great opportunities for trade and investment.

So that's one thing we agree on on this thread.

**Chris** · January 24

1 hour ago, DangerousSausage said:

Play nicely please - I know better than most how emotive this is, but let's not get personal.

Sound advice guys! Please don't make me have to fetch @GrannyPie's walking sticks to clobber anyone.

Let's have a respectful debate where everyone's opinions are valued. Please remember to stay calm and avoid getting heated. I don't want any of you falling out over something which can be completely avoided. Sending each of you , now play nice nicely. @Piethagoram @Ohh Tommy Johnson @Robbie

Ohh Tommy Johnson · January 24

29 minutes ago, Robbie said:

So that's one thing we agree on on this thread.

I suspect, at the end of the day we agree on a lot more than it appears. We want the best for the country, we just have different ideas about the approach we should take. I bet if we were in a pub discussing this, we would find common ground. As I say, I am enjoying the debate, and pleased that we can disagree agreeably (or from my side at least).

31 minutes ago, Chris said:

Sound advice guys! Please don't make me have to fetch @GrannyPie's walking sticks to clobber anyone.

Let's have a respectful debate where everyone's opinions are valued. Please remember to stay calm and avoid getting heated. I don't want any of you falling out over something which can be completely avoided. Sending each of you , now play nice nicely. @Piethagoram @Ohh Tommy Johnson @Robbie

To be fair, this has been largely respectful and I think @Robbie has presented his arguments well. I hope he feels the same.

Robbie · January 24

@Ohh Tommy Johnson Yes I'm sure we would.

I'd just like to mention that being on the roads as a HGV driver before retiring, I hadn't seen a marked reduction of EU 38/40 tonne trucks on our roads post Brexit. 100s of Trucks I saw each day, from all over the EU, nearly as many as our own. Trade was still going on between the UK and EU. Lots of 7.5 tonne Luton vans carrying small goods from Poland, even Estonia etc. So the trade is still there. Like I say, I've no problem with free trade and I do understand there has to be agreements over standards both ways etc, but it's just all the other laws, rules and regs that were policed by the ECJ, that came with being a member of the EU that I disliked.

**Piethagoram** · January 25

14 hours ago, Robbie said:

No matter what my answer would be, you would not accept my answer, Remoaners never do. All you would do is come with another question or go on a big spiel about how bad Brexit is and how good the EU is.

You can both argue to Kingdom come but you can't change the fact that the symbolic flag of the EU no longer flies officially in the UK. This Country joins Countries like USA, Canada, India, Brazil, Indonesia, South Africa, Nigeria, Argentina & Mexico being a sovereign independent Country not tied to a Political Union.

We should all rejoice for that.

Hey @Robbie

I hear what you say but I am genuinely interested in what you have to say to the answer of

"Not being disrespectful, when you are not willing to answer my Leigh on Sea question, nor whether it is right for the UK to respect international law, or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners"

Robbie · January 25

5 hours ago, Piethagoram said:

Hey @Robbie

I hear what you say but I am genuinely interested in what you have to say to the answer of

"Not being disrespectful, when you are not willing to answer my Leigh on Sea question, nor whether it is right for the UK to respect international law, or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners"

It a no brainer that UK law has to take precedence over EU law and International law., incidentally the UK has scrapped over 2000 EU laws but regretfully, over 67% still remain

The discovery of shell fish beds at Leigh on Sea is a very positive development. If the estuary needs to be cleaned up then this should begin with haste..

I personally believe the Brexit deal with the EU unfairly favours EU fishermen access to British waters and should be renegotiated. Lucrative Blue fin tuna for example, fished off the Cornish and Devon Coast, should 100% be for British fishermen not EU fishermen.

**Piethagoram** · January 25

Thanks @Robbie for the response

@Ohh Tommy Johnsonhas pointed out, several times, the environment the UK has to fit in, has in reality to RESPECT international law, whether it be at The United Nations, the ECHR, the Intl Criminal Court. For example, flights into and out of the UK are covered by international law. UK law over riding international law is a non starter in a global world.

Leigh on Sea shellfish beds... I am still clueless as to how this is a Brexit benefit, which was my original question. "If the estuary needs to be cleaned up, then this should begin with haste"... I hope a new Labour government makes the water companies pay for it themselves, rather than our water bills being increased as the water companies still dividend out of the UK their profits! They are taking vast amounts of money out of the UK, how is that OK?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67132803

On Blue fin tuna, only a very small number of licences have been granted by the UK. This is not a major fisheries issue.

My other question on the Danish Brothers freedom of movement remains to be answered! "or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners...instead we could have been sold to a consortium with a convicted fraudster... but as a UK fraudster, would that be OK by you?"

Totally agree with @Ohh Tommy Johnson on his commentary:

"The trouble with populism is that everything is boiled down to simple vacuous slogans - 'Make America Great Again', 'Take back control', 'Independent Sovereign Country'. What do the actually mean? Populism creates in groups and out groups and treats everything in simple binary terms. This has been the case ever since Girolamo Savonarola in 15th century Florence. It always eventually fails because it doesn't deal with the nuance. Brexit is hugely nuanced and complex and can't be dealt with in simple terms. Until Brexiteers realise that we can't move forwards."

On @Robbie's point on Kenya "Kenya for instance, their fruit and veg industry is growing, we already buy a growing number of their produce. That trade with Kenya is going to expand and it's not just Kenya, there are many Countries we can buy foodstuffs from at lower prices than the EU can offer."

Our main import (on an existing EU "rollover" agreement) from Kenya are flowers. I want to adhere to the highest EU food standards, which you may well remember Michael Gove giving his guarantee:

https://www.thepoke.com/2020/10/14/2018-michael-gove-guaranteeing-food-import-standards-hasnt-aged-well/

Tell you what, he lied! The Australian and NZ trade deals have lowered standards and put UK farmers at risk! How is that looking after UK agriculture

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-australians-mock-uk-trade-deal/

"Chipping in, his co-host jovially told Stefanovic off for ‘being so hard on the Brits’, saying that the UK also offered up ‘Spice Girl CDs and a nice cup of English breakfast tea’. Turning to the Australian Resources Minister Matt Canavan, who was appearing down the line from Canberra, Stefanovic challenged him to name ‘one good export from the UK’.

Smirking, Canavan said ‘It’s hard isn’t it. Peas? Pease pies? I don’t know, it’s very hard.’ He went on to say that actually, the deal was ‘about what we sell to them, so it’s a good thing for us’."

The UK government has embarrassed us on the world stage!

The cost of freight , CO2 emissions, agricultural produce from Africa is not the complete answer. With Russia returning as a world global threat, how is reliance on far flung places strategically good to feed the UK population. No amount of "flag" waving is going to alter this point!

Robbie · January 25

1 hour ago, Piethagoram said:

Thanks @Robbie for the response

@Ohh Tommy Johnsonhas pointed out, several times, the environment the UK has to fit in, has in reality to RESPECT international law, whether it be at The United Nations, the ECHR, the Intl Criminal Court. For example, flights into and out of the UK are covered by international law. UK law over riding international law is a non starter in a global world.

Leigh on Sea shellfish beds... I am still clueless as to how this is a Brexit benefit, which was my original question. "If the estuary needs to be cleaned up, then this should begin with haste"... I hope a new Labour government makes the water companies pay for it themselves, rather than our water bills being increased as the water companies still dividend out of the UK their profits! They are taking vast amounts of money out of the UK, how is that OK?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67132803

On Blue fin tuna, only a very small number of licences have been granted by the UK. This is not a major fisheries issue.

My other question on the Danish Brothers freedom of movement remains to be answered! "or the freedom of movement question that brought to us our Danish owners...instead we could have been sold to a consortium with a convicted fraudster... but as a UK fraudster, would that be OK by you?"

Totally agree with @Ohh Tommy Johnson on his commentary:

"The trouble with populism is that everything is boiled down to simple vacuous slogans - 'Make America Great Again', 'Take back control', 'Independent Sovereign Country'. What do the actually mean? Populism creates in groups and out groups and treats everything in simple binary terms. This has been the case ever since Girolamo Savonarola in 15th century Florence. It always eventually fails because it doesn't deal with the nuance. Brexit is hugely nuanced and complex and can't be dealt with in simple terms. Until Brexiteers realise that we can't move forwards."

On @Robbie's point on Kenya "Kenya for instance, their fruit and veg industry is growing, we already buy a growing number of their produce. That trade with Kenya is going to expand and it's not just Kenya, there are many Countries we can buy foodstuffs from at lower prices than the EU can offer."

Our main import (on an existing EU "rollover" agreement) from Kenya are flowers. I want to adhere to the highest EU food standards, which you may well remember Michael Gove giving his guarantee:

https://www.thepoke.com/2020/10/14/2018-michael-gove-guaranteeing-food-import-standards-hasnt-aged-well/

Tell you what, he lied! The Australian and NZ trade deals have lowered standards and put UK farmers at risk! How is that looking after UK agriculture

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-australians-mock-uk-trade-deal/

"Chipping in, his co-host jovially told Stefanovic off for ‘being so hard on the Brits’, saying that the UK also offered up ‘Spice Girl CDs and a nice cup of English breakfast tea’. Turning to the Australian Resources Minister Matt Canavan, who was appearing down the line from Canberra, Stefanovic challenged him to name ‘one good export from the UK’.

Smirking, Canavan said ‘It’s hard isn’t it. Peas? Pease pies? I don’t know, it’s very hard.’ He went on to say that actually, the deal was ‘about what we sell to them, so it’s a good thing for us’."

The UK government has embarrassed us on the world stage!

The cost of freight , CO2 emissions, agricultural produce from Africa is not the complete answer. With Russia returning as a world global threat, how is reliance on far flung places strategically good to feed the UK population. No amount of "flag" waving is going to alter this point!

I don't agree with your opinion on this topic and the majority of the Country doesn't either.

Like I said before everyone in this Country should be getting behind and supporting Brexit UK and stop the Remoaning.

As for Labour they would be a disaster for the UK if elected. Just look at London, Bradford , Manchester, Birmingham, Wales and the bankrupt Labour Councils.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · January 25

@Robbie I had missed that you were an HGV driver (you did mention it a few times, to be fair). That is quite interesting as it gives a different perspective I think. I know here in the South East we have seen a vast reduction of foreign lorries using the port of Dover... but that may just be confirmation bias on my part. I think on the whole Brexit has been good for your industry, so I can understand where you are coming from. And as with all things, and unlike our beloved Notts, all things are not black and white and whilst there are winners, there are also big losers - agriculture and fishing are probably the big ones.

The trouble with free trade agreements is that they come with strings attached - for example, India are demanding free movement of people and increased (unfettered) access to our software industry as part of a free trade deal. There is always a trade off. Our traditional position of leading in International (and European legislation) and compliance with those laws gained us a reputation for being a good partner to trade with. We shaped European Law and the EU (remember the Single Market was Thatcher's brainchild). We could have held on to a lot of that with a sensible approach to Brexit, but Johnson trashed it all, and the lack talent in the current government (and Labour are untested) means we are where we are. I suspect in time we will move closer to the EU through necessity (particularly if Trump gets in again), I hope our government (whoever that is) can do so on favourable terms.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · January 25

1 minute ago, Robbie said:

I don't agree with your opinion on this topic and the majority of the Country doesn't either.

Like I said before everyone in this Country should be getting behind and supporting Brexit UK and stop the Remaining.

As for Labour they would be a disaster for the UK if elected. Just look at London, Bradford , Manchester, Birmingham, Wales and the bankrupt Labour Councils.

I think you will find the majority of the country are now against Brexit...but we will never know. All we know is that 8 years ago the country backed Brexit. The truth is we don't know what the current feeling is, other than looking at polls. No politician in their right mind would revisit another referendum, so it will remain a moot point.

On the councils - Birmingham has a Tory mayor, and there are many bankrupt Tory councils too. My council, Kent is Tory run and we have been told that without additional government funding they will default this year. It's a funding issue not a political one. I think the government acknowledged that yesterday when they released £600m more to councils. Personally, I just want competence from my government and we haven't had that for a long while.

**Piethagoram** · January 25

2 minutes ago, Robbie said:

I don't agree with your opinion on this topic and the majority of the Country doesn't either.

Like I said before everyone in this Country should be getting behind and supporting Brexit UK and stop the Remaining.

As for Labour they would be a disaster for the UK if elected. Just look at London, Bradford , Manchester, Birmingham, Wales and the bankrupt Labour Councils.

We beg to differ then

Still no answer on our Danish owners freedom of movement though. I for one, am glad I still have a club to support and the EU indirectly made that happen!

Just think how #Notts could be with a freedom to choose the best undiscovered talent throughout the EU! But hey.....

Oh councils... Thurrock was Tory controlled and look what happened with going bankrupt....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67558911

I will continue to fight Brexit and as @Ohh Tommy Johnson continually points out, better than me, everything is a "trade off". There is no such thing as UK's "cakei-sm" in a global world.

My mother died during Covid, we stuck by the rules for her funeral...meanwhile Boris and his cronies partied in #10. I will NEVER forgive them for that

1 minute ago, Ohh Tommy Johnson said:

Personally, I just want competence from my government and we haven't had that for a long while.

Here, here @Ohh Tommy Johnson

Robbie · January 25

On 25/01/2024 at 09:44, Piethagoram said:

We beg to differ then

Still no answer on our Danish owners freedom of movement though. I for one, am glad I still have a club to support and the EU indirectly made that happen!

Just think how #Notts could be with a freedom to choose the best undiscovered talent throughout the EU! But hey.....

Oh councils... Thurrock was Tory controlled and look what happened with going bankrupt....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67558911

I will continue to fight Brexit and as @Ohh Tommy Johnson continually points out, better than me, everything is a "trade off". There is no such thing as UK's "cakei-sm" in a global world.

My mother died during Covid, we stuck by the rules for her funeral...meanwhile Boris and his cronies partied in #10. I will NEVER forgive them for that

Here, here @Ohh Tommy Johnson

And I will always get behind and support Brexit UK. The best Country in the World by far.

And as for the Tories, they deserve everything they are going to get at the election.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · January 25

7 minutes ago, Robbie said:

.... The best Country in the World by far.

And as for the Tories, they deserve everything they are going to get at the election.

...

These points I agree with.

**Piethagoram** · January 25

**Piethagoram** · January 25

**Piethagoram** · January 26

**Piethagoram** · January 26

**Piethagoram** · January 26

**Piethagoram** · January 26

**Piethagoram** · January 26

**Piethagoram** · January 27

The UK now in "corner shop" mode, the supermarkets ( read the EU) getting better deals on prices, availability, freshness of produce

**Piethagoram** · January 27

A reminder

**Piethagoram** · January 27

**Piethagoram** · January 27

**Piethagoram** · January 28

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