When Should A Manager Be Sacked?

[Chris]

Okay, we're lacking debates at the moment.

There's plenty of things we can discuss, just need a mix of people doing so but here's one for now. When should a manager be sacked?

-----My Thoughts-------

I've been defensive of some of our dismissal's in the past, for me I think there's an obvious time to depart with a manager. It's been a bit harsh for some of the managers who have managed to reach near the play-offs and although some might have agreed, a couple I did not - However Curle did have to go in my opinion.

No body can deny the start of the season's been hard, we've also been unlucky but for me it's when progression seems to have been paused or halted for a considerable amount of time. No signs of character or know how - We go behind and look very unlikely to get back into the game. Our football is very slow at times, often without direction (unless you actually consider hitting the ball to the flanks a game plan). Frustratingly the players don't seem to know what to do with the ball, I wrote my thoughts on what I felt was going wrong (it can be read on the home page).

CK cannot take all the blame, however for me he's the one who should fix it.

To answer my questions... A manager should be sacked for poor results, showing no signs of turning things around and when the players clearly have lost confidence to the point it becomes a blame game.

I think CK's reached this point myself. You?

 

[Fan of Big Tone]

I agree with everything you say Joe, a manager should be sacked when the performances are poor, not just results, poor results can be a mixture of bad luck, bad refereeing decisions etc., but poor performances on a consistent basis and no sign of turning things around is the time when the Chairman/owner should start to think about changing the manager.

 

It would appear that CK has lost the dressing room (if he ever had it) I haven't seen all the games but from the games I have seen the performances and tactical decisions have got progressively worse this season.

 

The players should bear some blame for the situation that they find themselves in and apparently they have had a meeting, I hope they discussed how they have let the manager down at a very bad time for him personally with the anniversary of the death of his son.

 

I guess it is time to think about changing the manager, I do feel for him and the powers that be should think long and hard about the timing if indeed they are going to sack him. If they don't sack him and we lose on Saturday then he will be subjected to all sorts of abuse from mindless fans and should he go through that? It is a difficult decision the club is damned if they do and damned if they don't I'm glad I don't have to make it.

[MuddyPatchPie]

It doesn't make sense to keep CK with the results the way they are. Of course the players have to take some responsibility but they are not finding it easy with all the changes during games etc. Selecting the right manager now gives the team a chance to improve and move out of the relegation zone. It's not looking like he'll be sacked this week, so it'll be an interesting match against Tranmere. We'd all be relieved if Notts managed to get a result and I will be there cheering the team on but if we lose that surely must be the final curtain on CK's reign as manager.

[weymouthPIE]

I pretty much echo what others have said on here. It's unfair to sack any manager after a run of bad results but when it's gone on for a while and the performances are getting worse, then you have to review it. That said, I think the players need to take a long hard look at themselves because they, at this moment in time, are letting the football club, the fans, the manager, and themselves down. The side we have is deffinatly not a bottom of the table squad, but they aren't showing that to be the case. There seems to be a lack of respect for the manager from some players for one reason or another, and that tends to be the beggining of the end.

 

The stats don't lie - CK's record has been less than impressive. He's been in charge for 27 matches including 3 cup games. He's won 7 of those 27 matches although 2 of them have been in the Cup. We've lost 12 (1 cup) and drew 7. That's 22 points from 72 league points on offer.

 

I like Chris, he's a nice guy and I would love nothing more than for us to get a win for him on Saturday, particularly this week, and go on a roll. I still think we'll go on a roll once we get that first win. But, we'll see...

[Harrys_Mummy]

I am of the oppinion that if we loose again this weekend, then maybe we need to look for a new manager. I dont think it is all CK, but moral is very low and the results are poor. I do feel that unlike alot of other managers he has had a fair amount of time to sort things out, and get a boot up the boys bums.

 

maybe the injection of a new managers point of view, and way of doing things would get notts a push in the right direction. I just don't understand why things have nose dived this much and nothing seems to be happening to try to help fix it....not much new meat was brought in to keep the squad fresh and I feel we have let too many of our best players go with no-one to fill their boots....this is a major factor and the manager/chairmen need to address this!

[cheeky~k8]

I think he should go... Its not all his fault but he should be at least addressing the situation, but nothing seems to be changing. If it carrys on for much longer there will be alot of catching up to do as we obviously don't want to go down. I hope it all gets sorted out soon and the chairman makes the decision sooner than later.

[super_ram]

I really feel for you Notts fans.After a good pre-season (I attended the Villareal game) I was confident you would be towards the top of the table and I can't understand what is going wrong.A sending off in the first two matches didn't  help and things have just gone downhill since ,except for a good show away at Liverpool thrown  in.I just don't have any advice or encouragement to give-I'm baffled.Surely things must improve soon.

[medievalmickey]

From what I read here you are unanimous in wanting to sack tha manager. Fair enough that's the nature of the job.

 

It is never the players' fault though is it. They are generally well paid in comparison to the man in the street yet are not held personally responsible for their efficiency.

 

In everyday employment many would be sacked but this is football and it is always the manager's fault.

 

Best of luck for the next few weeks.

[Chris]

From what I read here you are unanimous in wanting to sack tha manager. Fair enough that's the nature of the job.

 

It is never the players' fault though is it. They are generally well paid in comparison to the man in the street yet are not held personally responsible for their efficiency.

 

In everyday employment many would be sacked but this is football and it is always the manager's fault.

 

Best of luck for the next few weeks.

Players are responsible and accountable - However for me, if a manager can't change the situation then sadly the majority lies within his handling.

No clubs going to sack players for not performing - In regular work you would. If Notts was a restaurant for example - there would be a major influx of departures and any owner would also look into why management was failing.

Leadership skills and all this - I'm not trying to blame CK but for me managers have to take more than a portion of blame for mishandling situations.

Thanks and it's nice to see you

[GrannyPie]

Does CK now get praise and backing or is it the Players?

[Chris]

Does CK now get praise and backing or is it the Players?

Of course - Yet it's too early to admit if anyone was wrong but if CK/coaches and players do this, I will admit to be early upon his dismissal call. The question now would be why couldn't this happen sooner? Things get negative, the club comes out with messages with encouragement of support. We have a re-group, the fans are generally behind the club, especially those in attendances and although some negative chants start, it just takes one person.

CK's got to this commitment through - If we lose on Saturday, this performance won't change a thing sadly.

That said it's a positive start and if we see a slump again, now the fans know we can play.. I'm not trying to be negative, yet thoughtful and honest. Hopefully these building blocks will inspire the players further because they cannot let their heads drop.

[Fan of Big Tone]

My worry is that this is a one-off performance after all the pre match talk about Chris's awful week with the anniversary of his son's death. The players had a meeting and a few home truths were told and the Tranmere match was their response, they now need to keep up that level of performance consistently.

 

Hopefully it will give the players confidence that they can play well and win and we can move on from here.

[super_ram]

Nigel Clough is coming in for some stick from the usual moaners at Derby..Next 2 matches?Away at Leicester in the League Cup and  away to that lot over the river.Rams are a bit like Notts were not so long ago,winning away but can't do anything at home.If Derby win the league match NC will be a Messiah,if we lose the Knives will be sharpened.

[Fan of Big Tone]

How long has Nigel been manager of the Rams now? He must be one of the longest serving managers in the championship.

[Chris]

How long has Nigel been manager of the Rams now? He must be one of the longest serving managers in the championship.

Easily - There's no other manage that comes close to him. He's up their with some of the Premier boys! It's impressive and I'm not really a fan of his personally but he knows how to wheel and deal. I told Super Ram they'd get relegated under him, so considering how wrong I am there... I think it's safe to say he's doing a good job! Especially since they don't throw brief cases full of money at anyone!

[super_ram]

Nigel was appointed in January 2009,making him the 4th longest serving manager .He previously managed  Burton Albion ,taking them from the Southern League Premier division to the brink of promotion to League 2(they were 13 points clear at the top when he left)  He took over at Derby from Paul Jewel (who had replaced  Billy Bonehead)and was given the task of reducing the wage bill while improving results.Progress has been very slow but I think we are only just short of a promotion challenging side.The problem for Nigel at the moment is acquiring players who are better than the ones already at Derby while remaining within the tight budget imposed by our owners                                                             

[Chris]

Nigel was appointed in January 2009,making him the 4th longest serving manager .He previously managed  Burton Albion ,taking them from the Southern League Premier division to the brink of promotion to League 2(they were 13 points clear at the top when he left)  He took over at Derby from Paul Jewel (who had replaced  Billy Bonehead)and was given the task of reducing the wage bill while improving results.Progress has been very slow but I think we are only just short of a promotion challenging side.The problem for Nigel at the moment is acquiring players who are better than the ones already at Derby while remaining within the tight budget imposed by our owners                                                             

Who are the 3 managers above him? Wenger.... I can't name any more

[super_ram]

Quite right,Joe-Arsene Wenger was appointed  by Arsenal in September,1996.The other 2 are-Paul Tisdale (Exeter) appointed 26/6/2006 and ex Alfreton Town manager Chris Wilder appointed by Oxford United,21/12/2008.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

When trends are irreversible IMO. If there doesn't seem to be anything the current manager can do to buck the trend,he must be replaced.