KB1862

FFP was brought in to help the "elite" to a certain extent. They still have to follow the rules and some are scared to even go near it, hence the quiet transfer window, but it also benefits the bigger clubs as @Robbie has highlighted regarding bigger clubs having the better opportunities to buy the best players. There are clubs out there, irrelevant of league standings, who can sell out stadiums week after week after week but still won't benefit from this because despite revenue being boosted due to sell out stadiums, a lack of cup runs and European football won't increase revenue like it would to teams like Man City who have a history of failing to sell out every week. Hence the name "emptyhad" as the joke went. Obviously that's all changed now because of the success they've been having over the past few seasons making many people switch allegiances becoming glory supporters. I can see with this new rule change that, as unfortunate as it will be, more clubs will fall in to the situation that the likes of Everton have found themselves in with points deductions. It'll eventually lead to teams being hit with fines and points deductions more regularly and then ultimately a lack of competition during the season with the gap becoming wider and wider.

@TheSkipper Communication to the stadium would be a great thing to have. It's been called for for a while now. They used it in the Women's World Cup and it allowed fans to understand what is going on. Watching at home you can see what they're looking at but in the stadium you're wondering what it is exactly they're trying to pinpoint. I think there's a lot lost in the "letter of the law" which partly contributes to bad decision making. Sometimes common sense also has to come in to the equation. Referees often say that ex players don't have enough training to be involved with VAR and that's where I think things get muddled up with the training and following of the law comes in.

This is the issue I have with the handball rule. What exactly is deemed a "natural" position? Pundits have often said it and us as fans can even say it that when players are jumping for the ball, they need to use there arms to get elevation as well as using it for balance. So if a player jumps for the ball, of course their arms are gonna be out because they're needing it for elevation and balance so for a ball to hit that part of the body from a header down or a bounce on to the arm surely that needs to be deemed as a "natural" position. This is why there are suggestions for ex-players to be involved so they can give an insight into why players have their bodies shaped the way they are in certain situations. Also, if a ball bounces off a thigh, side, foot, head or what ever it may be on to the hand, it should not by any means be deemed a handball because it has hit a different body part before the hand. The whole handball situation doesn't take into account of the situation a player is in like jumping for a ball, how close an opponent is when striking the ball. It's almost like they want players to play with their arms strapped up behind their backs at all times. Not to mention humans don't have fast enough reactions to move their arms towards their bodies in to a "natural" position when a ball is struck at them from 2-3 yards out.

@Robbie It won't happen, as you say because of the power clique. They'll vote against the proposition that could level the playing field because it means nothings for granted, at least not as much as it is now. Parachute payments do more harm than the good they're supposed to be. Clubs can fall in to the trap of over spending due to these payments but also it enables clubs to become Yo-Yo clubs as they can spend most in the Championship to easily get promoted but then struggle to meet the financial needs to progress in the Premier League. But, you're bang on the money with there being 3 leagues inside the Premier League. I think the MLS works very well due to their financial structure. It's more of a level playing field.

@True Magpie I'd prefer referees to take a look at the screen more often rather than taking the advice in an ear piece from those up in VAR HQ. But, it needs to be quicker without a shadow of a doubt.

@Robbie Precisely. The amount of money the PL could potentially lose if they punish any of the "Big 6" is what worries them rather than treating each team fairly and punishing them equally. If this was the Man City of days gone by when they had the likes of Dickov, Dunne, Distain, Sun Ji Hai etc. They would have had the book thrown at them but because of them being a, now, well established club the PL don't wanna risk anything. Just like when they all agreed to the breakaway Super League all they got was, I believe, £2m fine. That's nothing to clubs that can go out and spend £50-£120m on players. I quite like how they operate in the MLS clubs have same sort of budget with allowances to exceed when importing players but can't go over a certain amount when importing. It gives teams an equal opportunity to keep up and level the playing field. I'm not saying we should head that way but more needs to be done to cut the divide as teams are struggling to keep up and it's showing season upon season when the same teams pull away. It's also funny how they tried everything to block the Newcastle takeover. I still believe that they tried preventing this due to them potentially messing with the "big 6" and the PL didn't like the thought of that because it adds more competition potentially.

I think adding Ex-Pros into the situation could actually be a good thing for VAR. Officials don't like the idea due to them "not having the proper training" but in all honesty I'm sure they'd do a better job than some of the officials running it currently. Plus they can give an opinion on situations due to them having experienced it. I just don't understand how VAR can work elsewhere and in other sports like Rugby etc. Yet in English Football there is a massive issue. Most of it comes down to the officiating rather than the technology itself. Also, sometimes it isn't down to VAR that decisions are made wrong. There have been that many rule changes and ways to go about things sometimes it's hard to understand what's right and what's not.

@Robbie UEFA also banned Man City from European competitions a few seasons back for FFP breaches. But they were reinstated and since then, they've made 2 Champions League finals winning 1 and losing the other. When asked about the dates of the hearings, it's funny how they say they can't disclose that sort of information but when it comes to clubs like Everton, as we've mentioned a few times, they have no hesitation but to announce it. The fact that there is 115 charges, nothing gets done immediately but Everton have a charge that they are punished for immediately with an appeal coming. So why are they penalising Everton for a single charge that may get overturned anyway. Why couldn't the same be applied to Man City? Punish them and let them appeal afterwards. But instead, they're delaying it trying to put off what should be a massive penalty. There's one of 2 things I can think of that could happen. They'll either delay it and things change, as you suggested, for them to get away with it or there's so much to go over it's genuinely piecing an evidence together to punish them. I don't believe the latter, I think they're trying to do anything to protect them because they're bringing in money. Again as you say protecting the top 6.

Thought we had a better second half than we did first half. All the possession with no real options going forward. Second half, there was a little more forward thinking and chances got created. The referee had an absolute stinker. Langstaff should have had a penalty when he was being grappled to the ground in the second half when it was pinball in the box. 50/50 challenges seemed to go more in favour for Barrow than us. As for the Jones incident mentioned in this thread, it was without doubt worthy of a red card. Breaking away and there was only one way that they were stopping him and they did it by swiping his legs from behind. People can claim "tactical foul" but this was more in the territory of endangering an opponent rather than stopping a dangerous attack by playing for a tactical foul. Jones without doubt man of the match. Didzy looked good breaking away with the ball trying to make things happen. Baldwin had a solid game. Stone had a good game, especially when making that one on one save during the first half.

That's apparently the reason behind PSG getting given the penalty against Newcastle in the Champions League. Wouldn't have been given in the Premier League but UEFA competition rules sees it different. It should be same for everywhere otherwise things get lost and incidents happen or get missed. I like the idea of having VAR watch on here. Certainly be plenty of talking points.

@Robbie Agree with that. The back line needed reassuring but nothing was being tweaked to adapt for that and it was frustrating. The only positive about it was that we were scoring plenty of goals and as the saying goes to win a game of football you have to outscore your opposition. But also, they say defence is the best form of attack. While that may be true, we can't be a team that has 6 7 8 or 9 goals thrillers every single week. I'm often critical of Southgate playing with a holding midfield of 2 but he does that for cover and while we have all the attacking qualities that need to be freed more, even he allows for defensive reassurance.

See the Chelsea situation is a VERY tricky one for them to punish. They exploited a loophole and to their credit it's very clever of them. Hence why UEFA quickly acted on contract lengths because they knew it was a loophole and it's not really breaking any FFP rulings. Signing a player on an 8 year deal allows them to spread the costs over that period. In that time, they get revenue from many different things. Ticket sales, Merchandise sales, TV rights, Cup money, Selling players, European Competition Money (if they make it), Winners money (if they win cups). It's all reliant on whether they can sell players for decent prices, win trophies or have good cup runs. If all of those come together, they recoup all the losses made but that ain't hard to do when you sign players on 8 year deals worth a total of £85m for example which works out to only just over £10m a season. Plus wage packets over that time that they might not be able to fully pay if they decide to sell players. What I will say is, I struggle to see how Man City, PSG and Barcelona have managed to keep going without much being mentioned about FFP that has been quickly acted upon with the likes of Everton.

@Robbie It should be foolproof though, it's been in the game long enough for it to work effectively well. Thing is, if anything, VAR has gone backwards rather than progressing the game. When England played Macedonia, Grealish had a goal ruled out for offside. On first replay, it was clear that it was offside yet they still took over 3 minutes to decide on a simple offside. It shouldn't be like that. Another example Man United v Aston Villa a few years ago in the FA Cup. They checked on a Villa goal for a potential offside. VAR checked the offside. Nothing. Checked for a possible foul. Nothing. Checked for a handball. Nothing. They rewound it so far back they may as well have gone back to kick off. It took over 5 minutes I believe it was for them to come to a conclusion. They shouldn't be looking for multiple incidents. I know they've come out and said they won't re referee the game but sometimes that may be the best use of VAR. The game you mentioned with Real Madrid v Almeria, VAR turned a blind eye to some obvious incidents. Same as with the PL, they come out afterwards to apologise for mistakes made but what good is that afterwards? Nothing changes the result they don't replay the game or award points. The result stays the same which has implications. Newcastle v PSG another one. Never a penalty to PSG but even with VAR they still made the wrong call and that had implications on Newcastle being dumped out of Europe. Had it not been for that error, they could have still been in Europe. I hate when fans use the term "big clubs get the benefit of VAR and the decisions" but when you read the stats, it does seem to suggest that bigger clubs get more benefits.

I don't fully understand the FFP rules if I'm totally honest. I know just about the basics of it all in terms of over a 3 year period clubs can't exceed £105m losses. But, I do think they need to find some sort of alternative. The fact that this is going to be one of the quietest transfer windows in the PL we've seen for a long time speaks volumes. Clubs are scared to buy players and even clubs that have the money to buy players can't because they would be breaking FFP rules. Instead, they have to offload big name players in order to make room for others. Take Newcastle for example. Wealthy owners that people have been critical of saying they're buying their way in but even they can't spend without offloading the likes of Isak and Guimaraes. The Everton situation is quite baffling the fact they are now facing a separate penalty while they are appealing the previous. People said that FFP is there for the "big 6" to stay as that but even they aren't safe from FFP. The likes of Arsenal can't spend without offloading. But, it does make you question the credibility of FFP when Man City have their 115 charges without facing punishment (yet) meanwhile Everton have been punished and Forest are looking likely to as well despite them have far lesser charges against them. I understand the need for FFP to avoid clubs over spending which could result in a downward spiral to non existence but there has to be a better way to avoid it. FFP is part of the problem as to why there is such a massive gulf between teams in mid table and lower to the teams that are up near the top season after season. The gap is getting bigger as the seasons go on.

@Robbie Exactly the point I was trying to make. I hope he succeeds but I'd much rather focus on who we've got now and how we're doing.

I like the idea of VAR. VAR has all the potential to benefit the game. It's been proven in World Cups and Euros gone by. Imagine needing a point to avoid relegation and you concede a last minute goal that should have been ruled out for handball, offside or a foul. VAR could potentially save you from relegation. The issue I have with VAR is people that run it. Before VAR, there was just the referee and his linesman. As annoying as it may be to concede a goal that should have been ruled out for whatever reason and the goal still stand or a player remaining on the pitch that should have been sent off, the referee and linesman only have real time to go by and humans make mistakes so it's forgivable to a degree. But, when they have all this technology where they can view incidents time and time again, sometimes for 5+ minutes, they HAVE to come to the right conclusion which sometimes they don't and it is absolutely baffling how they fail to make right calls despite being given multiple angles, viewings and time to see what has happened to make a call. EVERY decision made by VAR HAS to be correct. There's no reason for them not to make the right decision. But, the people running it are the ones making the mistakes despite being given every opportunity to get it right. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66612570 The other issue I have with VAR is during cup games. Teams below the Premier League "don't have the facilities for VAR" which then leads to things like this happening.. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/34651/11667940/how-lack-of-var-helped-manchester-city-in-thrilling-fa-cup-comeback-against-swansea#:~:text=Swansea were in the Premier,not used for this match.&text=A Swansea spokesman told Press,used in Premier League stadiums. If they are to use VAR in Cup games make it so that everyone has access to it or play games at stadiums that accommodate it. But then that leads to teams losing out on money that could be bought in.

I understand why people are keeping an eye on LW due to how well he did for us and most of us wish him to do well but whenever you enter social media on Notts pages, LW seems to be the main talking points, especially after it's been a Swansea game. There's more critical stuff than positive. Personally, I don't see the point in constantly mentioning him and being critical of him when his team gets a drumming like they did against Bournemouth. The one I seen the other day was during the Bournemouth game when the GK was playing out from the back and it gifted Bournemouth a goal. Comments like "Sounds familiar" "we've see that before" all these sort of comments. It might be a sense of de ja vu for us Notts fans given some of the goals we've conceded under LW but the players also need to take some stick as they will have worked at this style of play in training ready for game days. LW has taken on a job in a higher league so it was always gonna be tough but I hope it comes good for him and the board, fans and everyone else involved are patient with what he's trying to do there. Last season, we were full of praise for his style because we were winning games and building a title challenge but when things start going against us it all changed. Footballs a funny old game, its good when it's working for you but when it's against you no one likes it.

Fantastic stats for a first season in the EFL. Expectation was always gonna be high on him considering how many goals he bagged last season. It took him a bit of time to get going at the start of the season which led to criticism and mocking that he couldn't step up but he's managed to prove doubters wrong. I have read a few rumours, how true they are I don't know, that we've already rejected a £3m bid for him and Bolton are keeping tabs on him if they sell their striker. I'm hopeful that we can keep him for a while to come but if he were to go somewhere else, I'd expect a really good fee.

Didn't get to watch or listen to the game but the bits I have read it didn't sound too bad. The one thing that I am baffled about is that we are 3 league games in and some are already taking to social media to express frustration. Since the opening day defeat, we're looking like settling in. Slowly but getting there. I like to see this game as 1 point gained rather than 2 dropped. Plus a clean sheet.

Managed to catch the highlights on the EFL show last night as well as the extended highlights on YouTube. I did feel the goals were poor to concede though. First one sloppy pass back from Nemane, Rawlinson just gave up the chase on the ball but there was no real closing down from Brindley to block the shot. Second goal, defenders stepped up a bit late that allowed Clifton to stay onside from a chipped pass. Even if he didn't go for goal himself, there was another player free for him to square across. Jones had a terrific game from what I saw looked a real threat down that left and it paid off. Deflected cross leading to the equaliser as well as a magnificent bit of skill to get passed the defender and whip in a ball for Crowley to head home the winner. Langstaff looked a threat. Unlucky not to get a goal when he had his header saved which eventually led to Bostock grabbing his goal. Although, I feel he should have done better with his effort that went over the bar. But his goal will come and when it does I expect him to go on and grab more. I think this game showed there's still some work that needs to be done but I agree with Luke Williams post match interview that this is the Notts he wants to see and it's coming together again.

Listened to Luke Williams interview last night and caught the highlights earlier on today. Both goals seemed avoidable and I can see why Luke Williams sounded and looked very disappointed in the way we conceded especially the first as he mentioned it wasn't even that they out jumped on of our guys to head in it was the fact the managed to get the first touch and got the second to score. The second goal, sloppy pass and lack of closing down the ball allowing them to push forward and a free man to capatilise on the rebounded effort. As for the Baldwin red card, I also agree with Williams comments that it was needless just let it run through to the keeper. Silly second yellow to have. It could have and probably should have been 3 or 4, fortunately it wasn't. It doesn't sound or look good when there is such a lack of attacking threat happening in the game. It was nice to hear Luke Williams thoughts on the game though, as he said if the opening game wasn't as bad it was this game against a team a league higher wouldn't have been taking as badly as it is but cause there's already a dark cloud over Notts after the first game there needed to be more. Off the pitch, I get the first 2 games have gone bad but let's not jump on the negativity bandwagon. There's still a long way to go and one less Cup competition could prove beneficial in the long run for the league. Keep the faith and back the lads.

I haven't had chance to listen to the post match interviews or anything but I did watch the highlights on Instagram. The goals looked avoidable and highlighted problems we may have defensively. Also, the back pass from Cameron that led to Stone being sent off was absolutely horrendous. The 4th goal though looked like there was a foul near the halfway line in the lead up to the goal. On a positive, Langstaff did superbly well in setting up McGoldrick for the goal. As disheartening as the result may have been on our EFL return, I hope fans continue to back the team rather than turn on them as it was only the first game of the season and things can only get better. Let's hope this was just a blip and better things are to come in the season.

It was a good game of football tbf. I thought we deserved at least a goal. We had the better opportunities and I think it's fair to say the loss was possibly against the run of the game. It was only a mistake that let them in to get the only goal which Williams owned up to after the match rather than it being down to Cameron which I have to give him credit for doing so it shows great leadership deflecting it onto himself rather than the player. There were times where it was a bit frustrating that nothing was materialising in the final 3rd despite getting in to good areas on multiple occasions only for the ball to end up back or Forest being able to regroup quickly. I did notice that when Claxton played the wrong ball, Langstaff was quick to blast him for it as there were better options available for him to pass to that could have lead to a great attacking opportunity. There will always be those that say Forest didn't play their full squad that would regularly feature in the Premier League but there were many of them that will feature quite often next season. Also, we played a very mixed bag in both halves especially the second half where the likes of Claxton, Munakandafa and Mahovo came on. Jones and Nemane, I thought, did well down the wings and looked threatening going forward. I'd also like to note that Chicksen had Mighten right in his pocket which led to Forest needing to move him on the other side. Overall I thought it was a great pre season game that showed where the players are at and also gives Williams an idea of where the teams at, what needs to worked on and how to progress with this team for the upcoming season to get the most out of it.

Really hope they survive. Far too often it happens where an owner fails a club only for the club to be punished. More needs to be done to prevent this happening.

@AmericanPie just the first one all the way through and bit of the 2010 one bout it