Gifton Noel Williams on the barriers facing black football managers

[Piethagoram]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/apr/08/ive-been-told-to-cut-my-hair-gifton-noel-williams-on-the-barriers-facing-black-football-managers

[liampie]

i dont like when there is discrimination towards anybody, i think the football league would have more ex players if their profiles and careers warranted the chance. paul ince and sol campbell are two of the football leagues absolute worst, not because of the colour of their skin but because they are just clueless. it does not stop them from finding another club, they get appointed based on their playing days and name reputation.

a few years ago, i watched a documentary about asain players and managers. they never said that the game was racist, they acknowledged that their background makes it harder to break into the game.

i think it was set in bradford where at grass root level there are a lot of asian teams and managers.

i do think some people are ethnic backgrounds are held back but i dont believe some people help themselves, i can name white english managers who this applies too.

[KB1862]

@liampie I'm glad you highlighted Paul Ince and Sol Campbell as examples. I quite often use them in a conversation like this. 

I can't remember who it was on a podcast I listened to a while back but they had it bang on. It went something like this.. 

"it shouldn't be based on statistics as to how many BAME managers there are in the game, maybe they should look more in to how many are applying in the first place and finding out the reasons why they didn't get hired. Chances are there is someone more qualified than them that get given the job."

I think this is a fair assessment. If you had for example - Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti, Paul Ince and Sol Campbell going for a top managers job then chances are it's gonna be Jose, Pep or Carlo because they are more proven rather than basing it on skin. 

However, there is a counter argument that the likes of Gerrard and Lampard have been given decent jobs when retiring. You could argue their playing career had an effect on hiring but Sol Campbell had a decent career so why wasn't he able to start hire up. Obviously as mentioned now we've seen him manage there's a reason. 

I think more needs to be looked in to as I stated about the podcast I listened to about how many are actually applying and why they aren't getting hired and how someone else got there ahead of them. 

[DangerousSausage]

1 hour ago, KB1862 said:

If you had for example - Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti, Paul Ince and Sol Campbell going for a top managers job then chances are it's gonna be Jose, Pep or Carlo because they are more proven rather than basing it on skin. 

That's not really a fair comparison as the first three are highly decorated coaches from the very top of the game and the latter two have achieved very little as managers. Ince and Campbell also benefit from having been top-class England players, making them a tempting choice for chairmen looking for a celebrity manager. So they're not at all representative of up-and-coming black coaches. The likes of Ince and Kompany have a high enough profile to buck the trend, but where's the black Graham Potter or even Ian Burchnall?

I don't pretend to know the answers, and it probably isn't my place either, but it's a thoughtful article. I think the following section is illuminating:

Quote

His boardroom experiences were telling: “People would say to me: ‘Gifton, I don’t have a black friend. I don’t know how to communicate with black people because I’ve never been around them.’ They are just being real. They are not racist people. I realised that if they are interviewing a black guy and a white guy, they’d most likely pick the white guy because it is where they are more comfortable.”

 

[KB1862]

@DangerousSausage as I say, more does need to be to look in to why there isn't more BAME managers around. But using statistics as to how many there are rather than how many apply and are unsuccessful then as to why needs to also take place in this conversation. 

There is an issue, as said in that quote that means people from certain backgrounds can't make it for different reasons. 

But, as for the high profile manager situation, I was referring to the podcast quote. Because you quite often see about skin being an issue when in fact better qualified managers might be ahead of them. 

Also, as mentioned the counter argument is that Gerrard and Lampard got given jobs after retirement based on name and career so why not BAME managers who need to get a start somewhere? Kompany has managed to get in to a decent enough job so that could be a new start. 

[liampie]

i also remember watching a youtube video that asked interviewed clubs where they had appointed black managers, they always said they went for the best candidate. i remember there was an ex footballer from the 90s, i think it might have been trevor sinclair who was trying to make everything seem racial. though whoever it was said something that stuck with me, he basically said very few go into management or coaching due to their families lifestyle. Wanting to be close to family etc, that the Caribbean culture is to work hard and enjoy retirement.

if you are good enough, good luck getting hired. just don't stop applying.

if i was looking for a job tomorrow and had 50 rejects, i would not say they judged me based on my autism.

[Chris]

There's an element of people overlooking black managers, but I don't think it's down to racism most of the time.

A lot of ex footballers like Paul Ince and Sol Campbell do live off their reputation. I must give credit to Sol for his attempt to break into the lower tiers of football. However, I recall him expressing his frustration about being overlooked by Premier League/Championship teams and attributing it to the colour of his skin.

Personally, I think Gifton Noel Williams has done what many won't and stepped to a level that is willing to give him a chance. Hopefully, he continues to build a name for himself because I really don't think most clubs operate as with hidden agendas.

[AmericanPie]

I completely understand where you're coming from. Critiquing someone's hair or a single tooth is quite trivial and, quite frankly, irrelevant to their abilities as a professional. It's unfortunate that such comments are made, even if not intentionally racist, as it detracts from the person's talents and capabilities. Every manager will indeed encounter strange requests or unwarranted criticism, but it's essential for them to remain focused on their coaching and improvement. As the saying goes, success speaks for itself – and once someone stops paying heed to trivial criticisms, others will eventually give them the respect they deserve.