What's the point of VAR?

Robbie · December 24, 2023

I've reserected this thread because VAR is in the news again, and I'm asking what's the point of VAR?

The whole system needs a total revamp, because in it's present state, it is not fit for purpose. The authorities should even consider suspending it.

Every match that uses VAR there is controversy over a decision by the Referee or the VAR team.

There is confusion over interpretation of the VAR rules.

VAR is missing critical events in a game, then the authorities say VAR cannot rule on that incident

VAR is becoming a total farce and changes need to be made.

I believe VAR should be either allowed to rule on more incidents and the VAR officials given more powers, otherwise trim VAR down to goal line decisions and ruling over yellow and red cards only.

World football really needs to address the VAR problem and the FA need to be leading on this too.

liampie · December 24, 2023

i have seen a few rugby games with my dad on the tv, when england are playing and their whole setup is so simply executed that it barely impacts the game. the application of it in football is a farce, if something needs checking - do it.

a lot of the issue for me is the incompetence of officials and the people operating it.

im glad it has not expanded into the efl because many of the changes made this season force the games to drag on when its supposed to enable the game to flow. var could be a useful system to assist human error but its current application is not practical.

Robbie · December 24, 2023

3 minutes ago, liampie said:

i have seen a few rugby games with my dad on the tv, when england are playing and their whole setup is so simply executed that it barely impacts the game. the application of it in football is a farce, if something needs checking - do it.

a lot of the issue for me is the incompetence of officials and the people operating it.

im glad it has not expanded into the efl because many of the changes made this season force the games to drag on when its supposed to enable the game to flow. var could be a useful system to assist human error but its current application is not practical.

Agree. The officials in Rugby & Cricket seem to be clued up and work with their VAR system much better than the Football officials do.

I thought that VAR was supposed to eliminate most of the mistakes by the Ref but it is clearly not doing that at all. VAR is actually causing even more controversy.

Robbie · January 25

I never want to see VAR implemented in the lower leagues unless it is goal line technology and ruling on yellow or red cards. For me VAR in it's present state is just not fit for purpose.

**Chris** · January 25

I believe VAR was introduced either to hide corruption within FIFA, you know throw a lovely new toy to distract people, or it was implemented to highlight how poor match officials are. Either way, I think both of these scenarios have come true.

Joking aside, I think it's the implementation and standard of officials failing to do the right thing.

Most of the appeals that go to VAR are common sense, you see it and can make a clear decision, but there are a level of clueless people in the operation of it. I mean, if a referee can make the wrong call in order to protect his mate from any backlash and that proves to be costly. How can we prevent uninformed officials from making decisions that are beyond their understanding? Better application and training.

Ohh Tommy Johnson · January 26

It seems to me that there has been no attempt to learn from the experience of other sports. Cricket and Rugby have used similar systems for years. Cricket has strict protocols that the 3rd umpire goes through, rugby is more dynamic and shows how it could be used in a fast moving sport. Both show how it could be communicated better. The frustrating thing is that there seems to be no attempt to address these. Just letting people know what is going on and the thinking behind decisions would be a big step forward and being clear what they are looking at. Rugby used to go ages back in play to review a try (particularly if you were playing Saracens), they need to make sure that they only review stuff immediately before a goal, and then incidents of foul play the ref may miss.

Just doing that will make a big difference. The long and short is that VAR is here to stay, but it needs improving.

Robbie · January 26

@Ohh Tommy Johnson

@liampie @Chris

I think it is significant that we never seem to get regular controversy with the Cricket and Rugby VAR decisions. In cricket it tends to initiate debate when a catch is taken with the hands touching the ground, but otherwise viewers agree with decisions made. In Football it comes down to multiple decisions made that initiate debate. VAR was supposed to solve or the problems about Refs making the wrong decisions, but it's implementation has only increased the lack of trust in the decision making.

**Chris** · January 26

It probably helps to sell and keep the sport being talked about, not for good reasons, but drama does tend to get the most views and eyes onto a product.

**KB1862** · January 26

I like the idea of VAR.

VAR has all the potential to benefit the game. It's been proven in World Cups and Euros gone by. Imagine needing a point to avoid relegation and you concede a last minute goal that should have been ruled out for handball, offside or a foul. VAR could potentially save you from relegation.

The issue I have with VAR is people that run it.

Before VAR, there was just the referee and his linesman. As annoying as it may be to concede a goal that should have been ruled out for whatever reason and the goal still stand or a player remaining on the pitch that should have been sent off, the referee and linesman only have real time to go by and humans make mistakes so it's forgivable to a degree. But, when they have all this technology where they can view incidents time and time again, sometimes for 5+ minutes, they HAVE to come to the right conclusion which sometimes they don't and it is absolutely baffling how they fail to make right calls despite being given multiple angles, viewings and time to see what has happened to make a call.

EVERY decision made by VAR HAS to be correct. There's no reason for them not to make the right decision. But, the people running it are the ones making the mistakes despite being given every opportunity to get it right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66612570

The other issue I have with VAR is during cup games.

Teams below the Premier League "don't have the facilities for VAR" which then leads to things like this happening..

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/34651/11667940/how-lack-of-var-helped-manchester-city-in-thrilling-fa-cup-comeback-against-swansea#:~:text=Swansea were in the Premier,not used for this match.&text=A Swansea spokesman told Press,used in Premier League stadiums.

If they are to use VAR in Cup games make it so that everyone has access to it or play games at stadiums that accommodate it. But then that leads to teams losing out on money that could be bought in.

Robbie · January 26

2 hours ago, Chris said:

It probably helps to sell and keep the sport being talked about, not for good reasons, but drama does tend to get the most views and eyes onto a product.

Too true.

Robbie · January 26

5 minutes ago, KB1862 said:

I like the idea of VAR.

VAR has all the potential to benefit the game. It's been proven in World Cups and Euros gone by. Imagine needing a point to avoid relegation and you concede a last minute goal that should have been ruled out for handball, offside or a foul. VAR could potentially save you from relegation.

The issue I have with VAR is people that run it.

Before VAR, there was just the referee and his linesman. As annoying as it may be to concede a goal that should have been ruled out for whatever reason and the goal still stand or a player remaining on the pitch that should have been sent off, the referee and linesman only have real time to go by and humans make mistakes so it's forgivable to a degree. But, when they have all this technology where they can view incidents time and time again, sometimes for 5+ minutes, they HAVE to come to the right conclusion which sometimes they don't and it is absolutely baffling how they fail to make right calls despite being given multiple angles, viewings and time to see what has happened to make a call.

EVERY decision made by VAR HAS to be correct. There's no reason for them not to make the right decision. But, the people running it are the ones making the mistakes despite being given every opportunity to get it right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66612570

The other issue I have with VAR is during cup games.

Teams below the Premier League "don't have the facilities for VAR" which then leads to things like this happening..

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/34651/11667940/how-lack-of-var-helped-manchester-city-in-thrilling-fa-cup-comeback-against-swansea#:~:text=Swansea were in the Premier,not used for this match.&text=A Swansea spokesman told Press,used in Premier League stadiums.

If they are to use VAR in Cup games make it so that everyone has access to it or play games at stadiums that accommodate it. But then that leads to teams losing out on money that could be bought in.

I agree VAR does have the potential to improve the game but where was it when Real Madrid played Almeria? Almeria was robbed plain and simple. Trouble with VAR everyone who views the footage sees something different. VAR in it's present form will never be foolproof.

**KB1862** · January 26

@Robbie It should be foolproof though, it's been in the game long enough for it to work effectively well. Thing is, if anything, VAR has gone backwards rather than progressing the game.

When England played Macedonia, Grealish had a goal ruled out for offside. On first replay, it was clear that it was offside yet they still took over 3 minutes to decide on a simple offside. It shouldn't be like that.

Another example Man United v Aston Villa a few years ago in the FA Cup. They checked on a Villa goal for a potential offside. VAR checked the offside. Nothing. Checked for a possible foul. Nothing. Checked for a handball. Nothing. They rewound it so far back they may as well have gone back to kick off. It took over 5 minutes I believe it was for them to come to a conclusion. They shouldn't be looking for multiple incidents.

I know they've come out and said they won't re referee the game but sometimes that may be the best use of VAR.

The game you mentioned with Real Madrid v Almeria, VAR turned a blind eye to some obvious incidents. Same as with the PL, they come out afterwards to apologise for mistakes made but what good is that afterwards? Nothing changes the result they don't replay the game or award points. The result stays the same which has implications.

Newcastle v PSG another one. Never a penalty to PSG but even with VAR they still made the wrong call and that had implications on Newcastle being dumped out of Europe. Had it not been for that error, they could have still been in Europe.

I hate when fans use the term "big clubs get the benefit of VAR and the decisions" but when you read the stats, it does seem to suggest that bigger clubs get more benefits.

Robbie · January 27

Spurs are a big club, but Man C are even bigger and again, Man C seemed to get the benefit of the doubt when it appeared that the Spurs goalie had been impeded by a Man City player following a Man C corner, near the end of the FA Cup match last night. The goal was given despite clear evidence that there was pushing and shoving immediately before the Man C goal. But VAR didn't see enough to warrant the goal being disallowed. If it has been the other way round would a Spurs goal has been disallowed? I'm sure it would have been.

**DangerousSausage** · January 27

I've never been a fan, but I don't doubt it could be implemented more smoothly.

The trouble is, there's still a human element, it's just two men in a room with a monitor rather than the ref. I've seen countless contentious decisions made by VAR when even the slowest replays aren't clear. If you're not 100% sure whether a defender's hand brushed the ball even when you slow it down to individual frames, you shouldn't be giving handball.

Likewise, we need to think about the offside rule and what it's actually for. Should goals really be ruled out for offside because the striker's nose was 1 millimetre beyond the last defender? Is that really giving him an advantage? VAR seems to have ushered in this fundamentalist interpretation of the offside rule, and it no longer seems to matter whether the striker was actually gaining an unfair advantage. We seem to have got to a point where, if ANY part of the striker is even the minutest distance past ANY part of the last man, it's ruled out. That's impossible for humans to judge and is often difficult using slow-motion replays too. It inevitably results in delays as the replays have to be scoured for infringements that are undetectable by the human eye.

Robbie · January 27

Totally agree with you @DangerousSausage when VAR was introduced I thought it would stop or just reduce these contentious decisions but they have increased under VAR. The offside rule needs clarifying by FIFA, & a standard introduced, such as for example, the whole body of an attacker needs to be in front of the defender before the attacker is deemed offside.

Robbie · January 27

We ought to have a VAR watch on here. More VAR controversy. Watching the Fulham v Newcastle match the ball comes off a Newcastle arm, the changes direction of the ball, and another Newcastle player scores thank you very much. It's a definite hand ball but goes to VAR and the goal given. Premier league cash rich Newcastle get the benefit.

They were saying on the commentary that if that incident had happened in Europe, the goal would have been disallowed.

Football's laws are just not consistent anymore across the World. How has that happened?

**KB1862** · January 28

16 hours ago, Robbie said:

They were saying on the commentary that if that incident had happened in Europe, the goal would have been disallowed.

That's apparently the reason behind PSG getting given the penalty against Newcastle in the Champions League. Wouldn't have been given in the Premier League but UEFA competition rules sees it different. It should be same for everywhere otherwise things get lost and incidents happen or get missed.

I like the idea of having VAR watch on here. Certainly be plenty of talking points.

**DangerousSausage** · January 28

On 27/01/2024 at 13:35, Robbie said:

The offside rule needs clarifying by FIFA, & a standard introduced, such as for example, the whole body of an attacker needs to be in front of the defender before the attacker is deemed offside.

That would make sense, but then we'd just end up scouring VAR stills for a pixel of clear space between the attacker and the last defender instead. Maybe we should just accept that refereeing decisions will always have a human element no matter how much technology you add in, and can never be entirely consistent.

Robbie · January 28

16 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said:

That would make sense, but then we'd just end up scouring VAR stills for a pixel of clear space between the attacker and the last defender instead. Maybe we should just accept that refereeing decisions will always have a human element no matter how much technology you add in, and can never be entirely consistent.

When there wasn't VAR, Refs made mistakes, & we grumbled but it was just part of the game in the league for over 136 years from the football league's beginnings in this Country.

The laws of the game became consistent across the globe.

Now we have VAR, the footballing authorities across the World can't even agree on what some of the rules are regarding it, no wonder the fans are confused, even the players managers, and officials are confused too.

Robbie · January 29

You can here the VAR team discussing this incident

Is this a penalty. The player has his arm in an unatural position so the VAR team say, but he was so close to the ball kicker and the ball hit is foot and then hit his arm, so he had no time to get out the way. If he had his arm by his side and the ball it his foot then bounced against his arm, the penalty wouldn't have been given?

Surely, if the ball hit his arm directly that would have been grounds but was it intentional handball?

AmericanPie · January 29

I believe it's only football where it falls short; it's quite common in American sports to review and promptly get on with things. It's very British to make something more complicated, but I think the solution would be to consistently enforce VAR and officiating training at the end of each season in the UK. Showing a desire to start getting things right and using it efficiently will only happen if the starting point is as knowledgeable as the end point. Interrupting VAR shouldn't require a science degree; it should be a matter of seconds and straight into the decision.

RetroPie · January 29

I’m not a fan of VAR, I believe it spoils the game and highlights the inadequacy of officials. It’s not a positive promotion for football, but it’s preferable that the right decisions are made as it reveals how often things are overlooked. It’s just the use of VAR, I don’t reckon it’s something that can be sorted without training.

**KB1862** · January 29

I think adding Ex-Pros into the situation could actually be a good thing for VAR. Officials don't like the idea due to them "not having the proper training" but in all honesty I'm sure they'd do a better job than some of the officials running it currently. Plus they can give an opinion on situations due to them having experienced it.

I just don't understand how VAR can work elsewhere and in other sports like Rugby etc. Yet in English Football there is a massive issue. Most of it comes down to the officiating rather than the technology itself.

Also, sometimes it isn't down to VAR that decisions are made wrong. There have been that many rule changes and ways to go about things sometimes it's hard to understand what's right and what's not.

**True Magpie** · January 29

I believe VAR needs to be controlled efficiently from behind the scenes, where decisions can be relayed quickly based on what they observe, allowing the officials to apply the rules correctly. The problem is, many officials seem hesitant to make quick decisions and spend too much time near the screens, causing further delays in the game.

**KB1862** · January 29

@True Magpie I'd prefer referees to take a look at the screen more often rather than taking the advice in an ear piece from those up in VAR HQ. But, it needs to be quicker without a shadow of a doubt.

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