33.7% of the vote gets 64.6% of MPs. Is it time for PR electoral system?

[Robbie]

The General election is over. The results have been declared. Labour have a super majority in the H of C with 412 MPs with just 33. 7% of the popular vote from a turnout of just 60%. So Labour win with just 1 in 5 potential voters voting for them.

My question is, is it time for reform of the FPTP political system because it is not representative of all those people who vote for different parties?

I believe it is time to consider having a change from 'First Past The Post' electoral system to having a Proportional Representative system where.your vote for a political party really counts.

All the small parties support PR, but of course the two largest parties do not. But I do think we need a much fairer voting system in this Country.

[Fan of Big Tone]

But if this election had been proportional representation then wouldn't it be a case of the party that forms the government having to pander to the whims of minority parties in order to get legislation through? I don’t think that’s a good idea, look at Teresa May throwing billions of pounds at the NI parties in order to get them to vote with the Tories. Why should minority parties have all that clout.

I prefer a strong government with a good mandate and opposition parties holding them to account.

[Fozzy]

We are one of the few countries left that don’t have PR and it is well overdue. Having a coalition keeps parties honest and does away with them being able to roughshod their policies through just by weight of numbers. It is long overdue.

Although Labour have a huge majority, it is not really a strong government @Fan of Big Tone, with only 20% of the electoral vote they are massively indebted to the Lib Dem’s, Greens and especially Reform for the seats they have.

They have five years to prove themselves and looking at how their front bench is shaping up, they’re going to need a lot of luck as they don’t have a lot of real world experience for the roles they are in.

 

[Robbie]

In my book a Party that gets just 33.7% of the vote shouldn't be getting 64.6% of MPs. Having an overwhelming majority under those circumstances is not democracy.

A large majority doesn't necessarily mean that we will get stable government. Just look what happened to the previous government that had a large majority.

Every single vote cast should count and with PR every vote does count. No voter is disenfranchised with PR, but when you get  66.3% of voters voting against this government & only 37.7 for there's something drastically wrong 

[Fan of Big Tone]

46 minutes ago, Fozzy said:

Although Labour have a huge majority, it is not really a strong government @Fan of Big Tone,

I disagree the huge majority means they’ll get legislation through with no problems it doesn’t matter what percentage of the vote they got with that majority.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

That is What Nigel Farage is trying to do, get Rid of this Country's Stupid and Out Of Date Electoral System. He has a Tiny Bridgehead Now within Parliament, but from little Acorns do Mighty Oaks Grow.

[Fan of Big Tone]

49 minutes ago, Robbie said:

A large majority doesn't necessarily mean that we will get stable government. Just look what happened to the previous government that had a large majority.

In my opinion the last Government were a bunch of clowns more interested in themselves than serving the country, this Government are made up of proper politicians, they are united with a good working majority, it will be much more stable.

1 minute ago, Wheelbarrow repair man said:

That is What Nigel Farage is trying to do, get Rid of this Country's Stupid and Out Of Date Electoral System. He has a Tiny Bridgehead Now within Parliament, but from little Acorns do Mighty Oaks Grow.

God forbid that racist bigot gets anywhere near Government. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone who voted for Reform, it’s my opinion no offence to anyone here.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

@Fan of Big Tone

I Couldn't Disagree with You More. This Government will just be Like the Last One the Country will be swallowed up by Immigrants Taxes will be higher Food will be dearer and The Non Obtainable Net Zero will Crush life out of the Ordinary Man in the Street. We now have a Prime Minister who will bow Down to the EU and Probably take the UK back into that God Forsaken Vipers Nest via the Back Door. Starmer is a Man who would be happy to be Ruled by the Elites of Davos (something he's Admitted to) who's Slogan is You Will Own Nothing , Have Nothing And Be Happy.

[Robbie]

14 hours ago, Fan of Big Tone said:

God forbid that racist bigot gets anywhere near Government. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone who voted for Reform, it’s my opinion no offence to anyone here.

I think we have gone off topic here Fan of big Tone. Didn't really want to talk about individual parties or leaders.

[Wheelbarrow repair man]

I Will Make One Final Remark Regarding This Topic.

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF SPORT AND OFF OF THIS WEBSITE.

[Fan of Big Tone]

@Wheelbarrow repair man we’ll have to agree to differ, immigrants have been demonised by the previous government and others they aren’t the root of all the countries problems and as for Starmer taking us into Europe I’d be happy to return by the back door or front door. In my opinion Europe was good for this country and since we left it’s been downhill.

@Robbie topics generally drift off topic it’s like talking in the pub you start on one topic and the conversation meanders round to other subjects. As long as we’re respectful I don’t see the problem.

[Robbie]

14 hours ago, Fan of Big Tone said:

@Wheelbarrow repair man we’ll have to agree to differ, immigrants have been demonised by the previous government and others they aren’t the root of all the countries problems and as for Starmer taking us into Europe I’d be happy to return by the back door or front door. In my opinion Europe was good for this country and since we left it’s been downhill.

@Robbie topics generally drift off topic it’s like talking in the pub you start on one topic and the conversation meanders round to other subjects. As long as we’re respectful I don’t see the problem.

@Fan of Big ToneI Just didn't want the topic to drift into discussing individuals and political personalities 

I agree that is is important to be respectful and political threads can be decisive. I wanted to avoid that.

[Fan of Big Tone]

@Robbie I did say it was just my opinion and my remarks weren’t aimed towards Reform voters. People have slagged off Starmer I voted labour and I wasn’t offended everyone has a right to an opinion.

I’m sorry you thought my comments were out of order that’s the last thing I wanted, we are all friends here I respect others opinions and was just stating mine.

I certainly did not at any point make it personal to anyone on here I’m sorry you think I did.

@RobbieThere really is no need to tag Chris he doesn’t need this and I’m sure he’ll agree I’ve done nothing wrong.

As I say we are all friends and I hope I remain yours.

[Robbie]

55 minutes ago, Wheelbarrow repair man said:

I Will Make One Final Remark Regarding This Topic.

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF SPORT AND OFF OF THIS WEBSITE.

I agree totally with @Wheelbarrow repair man

[Fan of Big Tone]

I believe Chris is looking at ways to enable people to ignore political talk if they wish but it may take a while, meanwhile hopefully it can be discussed in a grown up manner with respect.

[Piethagoram]

I agree with PR

 

[Robbie]

Looking at @Piethagoram chart it appears that a small majority of the British public support PR.

The Libdems and Greens have supported PR for years and the Labour Party supported PR at one time.

PR actually favours the centre left because under PR, Labour, Libdems, Greens & SNP all together under PR would have the majority.

Putting parties aside, I think it's a fairer system. Most of the Countries of Europe have some kind of PR & the EU parliament is elected by PR too.

[DangerousSausage]

I do think a version of PR would be more democratic. In Germany you get two votes, one for your constituency and one for a party list, with the number of MPs for each party being aligned with their percentage of the vote. 

For anyone who'd rather stick with FPTP because it stops certain small parties gaining too much influence, here's some food for thought: the French National Front has just won about the same share of the vote that Labour has. In France, there's a second round of voting, and after that a party with a third of the seats will have to negotiate and build alliances before entering government. In the UK, though, such a result could give them unfettered power - they could govern like kings for five years. Should any party have that kind of power?

Nonetheless, it's hard to see it happening because the party in power is the one that benefits the most from the current system. Why saw off the branch you're sitting on?

[Fozzy]

5 hours ago, Fan of Big Tone said:

I disagree the huge majority means they’ll get legislation through with no problems it doesn’t matter what percentage of the vote they got with that majority.

The fact that only 1 in 5 of the electorate voted for them means all of their policies will be scrutinised and he will have to appease the masses if he wants to remain after 5 years. The electorate has become very volatile. 
And don’t forget that the parties left wing will hate the centre ground it is occupying and try to drag it back towards them. 
 

5 hours ago, Fan of Big Tone said:

this Government are made up of proper politicians

You need to take a closer look at them as they have little or no real world experience for the roles they are in. Just like the Tories, who had a serious military professional in Wallace and replaced him with the clueless Shapps in defence, Labour have stuck a journalist in the post. Home Secretary? Politics and economics student. Health Secretary? A student unionist and charity worker. Business Secretary? A politics student, never run a business in his life. 

A government made up of politics students and lawyers rather than business professionals.

 

5 hours ago, Fan of Big Tone said:

God forbid that racist bigot gets anywhere near Government.

Thought every government had to have one, that’s why Lammy has got a position.

[liampie]

5 hours ago, Wheelbarrow repair man said:

I Will Make One Final Remark Regarding This Topic.

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF SPORT AND OFF OF THIS WEBSITE.

i dont always feel comfortable discussing politics, but i do wish people would not fall out or allow thing to become heated based on views. if something goes off topic, please try to keep it on track.

free speech and to a level politcs shoud not be discouraged but if it can be discussed nicely then its the only answer.

[Fozzy]

3 hours ago, Robbie said:

Looking at @Piethagoram chart it appears that a small majority of the British public support PR.

I look at the post @Robbie and notice that only 16% are opposed to it. 30% fall into the don’t know category.

The only one on that list I’m definitely opposed to is online voting as it is far too open to abuse and hackers.

I would also get rid of the postal vote system for all but the elderly and sick, even though I am registered for it. My wife set it up years ago, I actually miss going to the polling station (don’t know why, I think all of the parties are hopeless and not worth voting for).

 

[Fozzy]

I think it is pretty sad @liampiewhen people on social media constantly spout off by saying ‘don’t follow me if you vote for xxxx’. All they are doing is narrowing their thought process by surrounding themselves with the same mindset.
They then become sheep, following each others lead and think everyone else is the problem and not what they themselves are becoming.

[liampie]

i completely agree with that.

politics and religion [within reason] should not come between people, especially good people. i prefer people to be passionate about their beliefs, but also understanding. i do have to admit, i dont understand fptp political system is. hopefully nobody has fallen out. as i say i can see why politics is important to be discussed but only when feelings can be avoided from being hurt.

everyone here on pon, falls under good people who are passionate about notts. politics might not align but they are still good people.

[Fan of Big Tone]

7 hours ago, Fozzy said:

I think it is pretty sad @liampiewhen people on social media constantly spout off by saying ‘don’t follow me if you vote for xxxx’. All they are doing is narrowing their thought process by surrounding themselves with the same mindset.
They then become sheep, following each others lead and think everyone else is the problem and not what they themselves are becoming.

Absolutely agree with that @Fozzy I also think that logarithms on social media tend to direct users towards their interests and feed them a constant stream of posts by like minded people which means they never get to read an opposing viewpoint.

I think it’s good to respectfully listen to an opposite opinion and comment on it without being abusive to the person with the opinion.

[Piethagoram]

Should there be a referendum on PR during the next parliament?