Jeremy Corbyn in Nottingham

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Who will vote for a 71 year old lefty dinosaur at the next election, not me.Tories have saved the country from the mess left by labour yet again.

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Me   

Wasn't aware either that the Labour party caused an international depression. You learn something new every day!

[Feral Fox]

Me   

Wasn't aware either that the Labour party caused an international depression. You learn something new every day!

Amazing isn't it @Super_Danny_Allsopp. Those bankers and people like Lehman Brothers had nothing to do with it. Neither did the sub-prime Mortgage market in the USA. The World wide recession was caused by the Labour Party. Honest.  

[PTID1862]

It isnt unfortunately what a few on here think though is it... It is what the nation thinks on voting day, given whatever system is in place at the time...

So bring it on... vote Jezza

[Feral Fox]

It isnt unfortunately what a few on here think though is it... It is what the nation thinks on voting day, given whatever system is in place at the time...

So bring it on... vote Jezza

Hence another reason to vote Jeremy C. He tells it exactly as it is. The leadership campaign has shown lots but one thing is major. People are fed up with smarmy politicians reading of scripts all the time. Jeremy speaks blunt truths and this appeals to a wide demographic.

[PTID1862]

I suspect you will eventually find... that won't be a wide enough section of society.

[Feral Fox]

I suspect you will eventually find... that won't be a wide enough section of society.

Possibly true, but with a little help from our friends the true blues, the austerity will kick in even more. That added to the recession that I'm betting is on the horizon again, dwp becoming a hated mantra for Tories punishing the disabled and ill beyond recognition, I think we'll do ok.

And no I don't want a recession, but who will the Tories blame this time? It'll be JC's fault I'm sure!

Lots of hard-working people will see the power of their vote in the next two years and not in a good way unfortunately.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

I suspect you will eventually find... that won't be a wide enough section of society.

Getting a lot of the Scots on board would be key. 

[PTID1862]

And therein lies just one problem. They won't vote Labour... the Labour party shot itself in the foot north of the border.

And the independence campaign there will win next time around, so any possible support there will be lost for good.

As said I hope he wins... I really really do. It's in chaos already... it will only get worse.

[DangerousSausage]

@PTID1862 workers' representation is an essential part of any democracy. Democracy can be messy, there are disputes, but it is preferable to dictatorship any day. In capitalism, company owners have an interest in driving down wages, and unions must be able to resist that. If they don't, you have a dictatorship and a declining quality of life.

 

It's interesting you mention Scottish independence. One of the most seductive arguments during the referendum campaign was that Westminster was run by a distant conservative elite. A Corbyn-led Labour Party, however, would be far more in line with the values held by most voters north of the border and would undercut the appeal of the independence brigade. JC is far better placed than the government or his rivals to hold Britain together. If, or course, he is not undermined by the Blairites in Scottish Labour at every turn ...

 

As for electoral prospects, you are trying to predict the outcome of an election 5 years down the line. The world could be a totally different place by then. The three abstainers focus on attracting some of the 24% of the population who voted Tory because these voters most closely match their own values. But why vote for fake Tories when you can have the real thing? JC, on the other hand, would reach out to the substantially larger number of non-voters - just look at how many people he has already engaged during the leadership campaign. This is what the SNP did in Scotland, and we all know how they did.

 

To be honest this is all moot anyway as the election will be rigged and Cooper will win. Hence another 5 years of implementing Tory cuts and then wondering why no-one will vote for them.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

As said I hope he wins... I really really do. It's in chaos already... it will only get worse.

Chaos is better than what we've had since Blair. I won't be voting Labour (or at all) if they don't change.

[Feral Fox]

@DangerousSausage I couldn't have worded it better myself. An excellent and honest appraisal of the current scenario. It is laughable that others, including other Labour candidates, say we won't win the next election in 2020. I gently remind them we haven't won the last two either and any of the other three candidates are likely to produce a similar result. The only thing that may arrest the fortunes of the party and demographic it should be aiming for is a total change of philosophy aimed at the demographic it should be focusing on!!! Trotting out the line of we need to convert the lost Tory vote in Southern England is ridiculous. Labour is a mass movement which should be supported by workers and bankers alike. Corbyn will move the party towards a better attempt at winning just by the simple fact he has something different to say.

Count up the UKIP votes last time around. 4 million votes there which are basically tory philosophies without the gleam and shine. Why? because it appealed to a disenfranchised part of society, not a stead-fast solid vote that has voted the same for years.

Labour under JC will also focus on a disenfranchised electorate and will invigorate them. His rallies have shown that!

[Joe Jones]

The Labour Party should just accept that Corbyn is by far and out the undisputed people's choice. I've not seen this much level of feverish acclaim from the general public for a single candidate here for years. It's almost Obama-esque. If he doesn't get in, chances are it will have been because Labour specifically engineered it that way. If that happens, Labour can forget my vote for good.

[PTID1862]

I shall answer at length later... but those posts certainly have a degree of double standards. I shall explain why I have said that, later

[PTID1862]

Firstly, you will note that I am all for workers representation, however this does not have to be via trade unions, we don't have them and our representatives do a fine job. Certainly no decline in quality of life here, without them... it isn't a must for a Union presence in any workplace.

 

JC will have a hard job turning the Scots, they actually do not want very much at all to do with labour, and in fact have since the referendum decided that they were cheated by Westminster and DO want to be independent (in the main). SO yes I have put that the yes vote will carry at the next attempt. without having constant contact with them, you cannot possibly gauge the opinion or disdain for our current Parliament.

 

By the very fact that you disagree with my thoughts on the outcome of the next General Election, you are also predicting an outcome, JC reaching out to non voters, could achieve the same result for the tories... those concerned of the result may well get off their butts and have their say. We all know there are "shy Tories" who either do not vote or who will not admit who for... hopefully they would rally behind the party.

 

Hardly laughable is it? Or is it laughable that you say you will win? This is the very nature of politics, the discussion, debate, fervour...I hope as I keep repeating that JC wins your leadership campaign... It has been a whole generation since we have had the two main parties showing their true colours and holding firm to their traditional roots and support. I WANT THIS ! make no mistake, I am not saying it for any other reason,. it will be good for the country to have the two as they should be! however, I believe the electorate has shifted and that true labour values will not be quite as appealing now. I may be proved wrong, if I am then so be it. I hope your contest is clean and outright with  no challenges, accusations etc etc...

 

The UKIP votes really only have one home, if Labour choose JC... and that is with the Conservatives. As you say, they are Tories without the shine, but few people thought the Tories would win outright, hence the UKIP results over recent years... if we get to the more traditional scenario, those voters will be back within the fold of the Conservative party (again IMO). I hope JC does invigorate people, whichever way they lean... getting more people interested in the politics is a good thing. Apathy most certainly is not.

 

Always happy to discuss, predict, debate politics here in sunny Cumbria

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

The UKIP votes really only have one home, if Labour choose JC... and that is with the Conservatives. As you say, they are Tories without the shine, but few people thought the Tories would win outright, hence the UKIP results over recent years... if we get to the more traditional scenario, those voters will be back within the fold of the Conservative party (again IMO). I hope JC does invigorate people, whichever way they lean... getting more people interested in the politics is a good thing. Apathy most certainly is not.

 

Not necessarily. Sure, the voters who previously voted for the BNP and National Front will go over to Conservative if given no other choice. You are more than welcome to them, 

The others are protest votes at having  real choice, i.e Tory, and Tory Lite. These people won't vote Tory, that is evident. These are the disenfranchised voters that JC can win back. 

If we are to get in someone like Liz Kendall, we might as well hand the keys to the Tories for the next 15+ years, then all move abroad or campaign to join an independent Scotland.

[PTID1862]

Would you like help packing?

 

Seriously, we are all predicting in our own favour, are you ever going to predict anything good for the Tories? Me, of course I am going to sway to the right, but I definitely want labour to go to the left. That is as it was, leave the centre ground for the Liberals... as the name suggests.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Would you like help packing?

 

Seriously, we are all predicting in our own favour, are you ever going to predict anything good for the Tories? Me, of course I am going to sway to the right, but I definitely want labour to go to the left. That is as it was, leave the centre ground for the Liberals... as the name suggests.

No need, already took that step   

Erm, no. I fail to see why anyone (besides those in the top, say, 5%) would believe anything good will come from the Tories. We know what they are going to do, we've seen it all before. We had a dulled down Tories before with the Lib Dems pulling them back, now we will have the full wack. Stand by for riots. 

 

[PTID1862]

Riots, IMO are far more likely after 5 years of Labour rule...

 

But that is the great thing about politics... it brings opinions, and anybody who has an opinion is political and vice versa...

[Feral Fox]

Well if nothing more Jeremy has invigorated the conversation here about politics and , as @PTID1862 said, most sane (even if we all occasionally question if @PTID1862 is sane      ) the lines of politics should and will be clearer for all to see. This should be a good thing as Tory lite is no answer for the country.

Only a few more weeks then we shall see which way the Labour party chooses to jump. Which ever way it goes I'm sure there will be grumblings. From the left (and me) if JC doesn't get it and from the right of the party if he does. Let's hope JC can unite the solid ground and focus on the Tories. 

For example the DWP figures on the fit to work and the deaths because of it. Shameful and disgusting. Regardless of your political persuasion i'm sure nobody would want to see people who aren't fit to work, made to work and die because of it. Ridiculous and needs sorting asap.

[PTID1862]

@hissingdwarf glad you appreciate the fact that I want the parties to be different as they should be...

I assume you have names for the people who have died as stated along with certified copies of certificate of death???

[Fan of Big Tone]

To bring a little levity to this debate I see that Jeremy Corbyns paper cup which he drank coffee from at the Nottingham meeting has been sold for £51 on ebay! The proceeds go to Age Concern, how that for Corbyn mania?

 

What are you going to do with it @hissingdwarf? Frame it and hang it over the mantlepiece?

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

It is in fact her own search history   

[Feral Fox]

@hissingdwarf glad you appreciate the fact that I want the parties to be different as they should be...

I assume you have names for the people who have died as stated along with certified copies of certificate of death???

Not a good subject to poke fun at me thinks. The figures were released by the DWP nothing to do with party politics. Only released btw when they lost the appeal to the information commissioner to keep them secret. As I said shameful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/27/benefits-death-claimants-welfare-ids_n_8047424.html

[Feral Fox]

Now now @Super_Danny_Allsopp we are a broad church which can support many views. Just not the views of that silly mare! The sooner she walks across and turns blue the better. The party is better off without the career politicians who modelled themselves on 'BLiar' people like Chukka my dummy out and Tristram !unt ( come on. You can't tell me his parents weren't Tories calling him bloody Tristram!!!) Can all leave for me. It's time for the loony left to take over the asylum!!!

@tonyhateley it'll be worth double that in a fortnight so if you want to buy it now from me, you had better be quick with your offer!!! I'll let you have it for £80 on a mates rate and I'll even drop off the said polystyrene white cup for you for cash on delivery. ( or is that too much like a Tory trying to make money out of everything and sod the rest?)

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Now now @Super_Danny_Allsopp we are a broad church which can support many views. Just not the views of that silly mare! The sooner she walks across and turns blue the better. The party is better off without the career politicians who modelled themselves on 'BLiar' people like Chukka my dummy out and Tristram !unt ( come on. You can't tell me his parents weren't Tories calling him bloody Tristram!!!) Can all leave for me. It's time for the loony left to take over the asylum!!!

I was laughing at Louise Mensch, the Conservative who posted the tweet. She thought that it showed the most popular results for '@lizforleader', when in fact, it was just her search history   

I don't particularly like Liz Kendall, but she is a bit of a MILF