First Openly Transgender Player at a FIFA World Cup

[TheSkipper]

It’s a tricky subject to discuss, but let’s keep this respectful. I am surprised that FIFA hasn’t followed suit with the Olympics. When transgender athletes first started taking part, I always thought that it would be a slippery slope because, despite their transition, they still have an advantage over females. I am all for supporting people, no matter what their sex is or what a person may identify as. I don’t care if people are straight, gay, etc. Likewise with race, I don’t have an issue with it and I wish more people would be open-minded in this regard.

However, I am still torn on the decision to include a transgender player in the women’s World Cup. Part of me thinks it’s great that the Canadian team has embraced their teammate, but the other half worries that this will only put the sport at a disadvantage and therefore incur the wrath we have seen in other sports for including transgender people, only to backtrack and say they can’t.

Quote

In their opening match against Nigeria, Canada midfielder Quinn became the first out transgender player at a Fifa World Cup. Like their style of play, it was done with minimal fuss.

Quinn is a key part of Canada's midfield, their place as the midfield anchor crucial as the Olympic champions aim to add the 2023 Fifa Women's World Cup trophy to their cabinet.

They played the full 90 minutes against Nigeria. The result was a goalless draw - but the Canadian number five's role created history.

Quinn came out as non-binary in September 2020, dropping their old first name, asking to be known only by a mononym - a name composed of only one word - and saying they would use the pronouns 'they/them'.

They have been an important figure for the national set-up since making their senior international debut in 2014, when they became team-mates with players who had shown them there was a future in football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441

[AmericanPie]

My personal view is, where else do they have to play? I do understand the concern that it could lead to people abusing the transgender path to get into football, but I think those will be few and far between. Just like cheats in any sport, maybe have strict rules regarding the length of time a transition has taken place and other requirements. I have no problem with it, no issue at all. If someone was born female and they transitioned into a male and were deemed good enough, I would feel exactly the same way.

[Fan of Big Tone]

I honestly don’t know what the answer is it’s great to be inclusive as you say @TheSkipper however in sport it gives the player an advantage but as @AmericanPie says where do they play, it’s a real tricky one. 

[George L]

As someone who has somewhat researched this topic, largely for the sake of some of my friends, I can say with confidence that transgender people should be allowed. 

After one year (the amount recommended by world athletics) of HRT (hormone replacement therapy), the only conceivable advantage a transgender woman (Male to female) has is a 9% faster mean run speed, on average, and this only applies if we insist on total fairness, which I would contest is not conformed to in current sports, such as many top athletes being very tall, which I would argue makes just as much of a difference, if not more than AGAB (assigned gender at birth).

It is interesting to note that in the same study, transgender men performed on average better than their cisgender counterparts, due to HRT.

I'd also tend to agree with @AmericanPie, and their point of where else they would play.

And finally, not to get too political, whether or not you agree with their being allowed at the Olympics, I'm sure no one could argue that new tory laws prohibiting transgender students from PE class (you heard that right), are anything but simply ludicrous.

[Fan of Big Tone]

Great first post @George L

[liampie]

firstly i think its great when people can feel safe knowing how they truly feel inside, it must be difficult for transgender people and at the same time it something they will know for sure is the right decision for them. i think football should be inclusive, i dont think people will say they are transgender just to play at the womens level for the sake of winning. i think thats a concern overstated by the media and authorities who are against it.

there should probably be some rules in place, such being fully transitioned.

other than that i think its good for fifa not have an issue with it, plus i respect canada for actively supporting their player.

[Joshua]

It is a very difficult subject; my personal opinion is that I don’t see a problem with it right now. In time, it could lead to issues; it might seem unfair to compare it to National League teams recruiting players from outside their nationality pool, but I can most certainly see some looking to bring in players who would be misleading under the transgender umbrella. I think it’s something that needs to be reviewed later on; right now, it doesn’t seem anything but a concern.

[Fozzy]

Erm, no, definitely not. A Transgender female is still not a biological female and should not be participating in top class female sport, otherwise why are so many top female athletes against their inclusion if there is no physical advantage? 
Where can they compete? They can if they decided to trans before puberty, if they didn’t, then they have to compete with the gender they were post puberty.
Regarding Quinn who plays for Canada, she was a woman before becoming non binary, so has never had the physical advantage of being a male. In that case I am fine with it, just as I would be if a non binary biological male wanted to continue in male sport. 
 

 

[thommo]

@Fozzy raises a valid point. While I am not particularly concerned, I do believe that there should be regulations in place to prevent any disadvantages. Ultimately, it is up to FIFA to make the decision, but they must take into account the opinions of female players.

[George L]

@Fozzy I would contest that at least phenotypically speaking, many transgender women are "biological women," as reductive of a term as that is.

And have you perhaps considered that female athletes are not particularly well versed in these matters? After all why would they be? 

[NottsCountyKev]

I think it’s a decision which FIFA needs to carefully consider. If they make a decision, it needs to be stood by, unlike the Olympics and some other competitive sports where they allowed it for a period and then simply didn’t acknowledge the period after changing their minds. I personally don’t have a problem with it, provided it’s within the fairness and professionalism of the game.

[Fozzy]

@George L, you can contest it, but at the end of the day transgender men and women still have the same chromosomes they were born with and that cannot be changed along with some physical attributes.

A man’s heart and lungs are bigger than a woman’s, their skeletal muscle mass is larger. Men’s hearts beat slower but eject more blood than a woman’s which increases oxygen flow. Men are physically bigger, lowering testosterone does not remove all of these affects as Trans women still retain some of that advantage.
 

[George L]

@Fozzy First of all, I said phenotypically, so you're point about genotype means nothing. 

Secondly, as previously, studies show that a year on HRT makes the only advantage a 9% faster mean run speed, and this decreases over time.

Finally, and most importantly, advantages have never been banned in sports, so why start now? Noone banned Usain Bolt because his height gave him an unfair advantage, and I'm sure we can agree that would be ridiculous. So why trans women?

 

[Fozzy]

17 hours ago, George L said:

Secondly, as previously, studies show that a year on HRT makes the only advantage a 9% faster mean run speed, and this decreases over time.

So at least you are admitting that HRT does not remove all of the advantage of being a genetic male.

17 hours ago, George L said:

Finally, and most importantly, advantages have never been banned in sports, so why start now? Noone banned Usain Bolt because his height gave him an unfair advantage, and I'm sure we can agree that would be ridiculous. So why trans women?

Usain Bolt is one of the greatest Olympians ever in my eyes, stick him on HRT for three years and he would have blown away the women’s field by a greater percentage marker than the men.

Whilst talking about HRT, it does not reduce muscle mass to anywhere near the same level as a woman and does not reduce bone mass. Men’s bones are stronger naturally, so who is most likely to come off physically worse in a 50/50 tackle? 
The Usain Bolt analogy you used is great as it also highlights the fact that men have longer limbs than women, this will give them an unfair advantage when it comes to sports involving throwing as we all know that in physics a longer arm can generate greater velocity. Men also have the advantage of naturally being able to move their shoulders and hips separately at great speed, if you watch women in sport, a lot seem to struggle with this. That’s why tall male golfers can drive a ball far greater distances than a woman, the fastest male cricketers can bowl 20 mph quicker than a woman, and similar differences with male and female baseball pitchers. One of my all time favourite athletes, Fatima Whitbread threw the javelin over 70m, but she was still over 20m down on the men.

In cycling a man with longer legs would be able to create more leverage which would lead to greater velocity.

They would have a physical height and limb advantage at sports like basketball and volleyball.

The advantages of being a post puberty male are incredible compared to a post puberty female and no amount of HRT will make things totally equal and that is why I’m against genetic males competing in female sport.

I will finally add that obviously I have no objections to trans males and females competing in sports where women already compete on equal terms with men.

[DangerousSausage]

This is an emotive debate that has been blown out of all proportion and often excludes the very people who are actually involved. Over the last 100-odd years, a grand total of one trans woman has taken part in the Olympics. She finished last.

As for Quinn, a few people need to read up on them - they were born a woman and are evidently not transitioning medically (as testosterone would be deemed performance enhancing). Physically they're still female, so there's no obvious reason to exclude them. But by the same token, I don't really see why this is groundbreaking. 

Sports are full of people with a physical advantage in one way or another, so the question of what would constitute an unfair physical advantage and what would fall within the norm is a complex one. Sports associations generally lack the expertise to judge this on a case-by-case basis. Generally, many trans women do retain an advantage with height and skeletal structure. However, trans people need to be able to participate in sports on an amateur level at least, and any ban on them taking part in sports in school (!) would simply be cruel and vindictive.