Hedge fund

[DangerousSausage]

I read Ray Trew's Twitter exchange the other day, and was very concerned to hear that a hedge fund is in to buy us. This worries me. He's the definition of a hedge fund from Investopedia:

Hedge funds are alternative investments using pooled funds that may use a number of different strategies in order to earn active return, or alpha, for their investors. Hedge funds may be aggressively managed or make use of derivatives and leverage in both domestic and international markets with the goal of generating high returns

This begs the question: what does a hedge fund want with NCFC? In what way is our club a worthwhile investment? Sure, the club could be run at a profit (while the team withers on the vine) but only a very modest one. It would take many years to recoup the money needed to buy the club, and if the team struggles, crowds will dwindle too. The alternative is that they want to pump loads of money in in order to get us to the land of TV revenue, but with two promotions needed and a very limited number of promotion spots available, it's a highly risky investment. It just doesn't make sense for me.

We do have one case study for a hedge fund in football - SISU, the owners of Coventry City, who have cut costs from day one. However, they seemed to be most interested in the ground, which was owned by ACL, a trust made up of a charity and the city council. The whole dispute around the Ricoh Arena and the disgraceful move to Northampton (complete with fantastical plans to build a new stadium) looked to me like an attempt to bankrupt ACL and take ownership of the Arena for a knockdown price. A strategy that backfired when ACL sold the stadium to Wasps.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Do they even exist? What happened to the Americans that had agreed a deal? Vanished from the face of the Earth I imagine, along with the Danish.

 

[ivansneck]

I read Ray Trew's Twitter exchange the other day, and was very concerned to hear that a hedge fund is in to buy us. This worries me. He's the definition of a hedge fund from Investopedia:

Hedge funds are alternative investments using pooled funds that may use a number of different strategies in order to earn active return, or alpha, for their investors. Hedge funds may be aggressively managed or make use of derivatives and leverage in both domestic and international markets with the goal of generating high returns

This begs the question: what does a hedge fund want with NCFC? In what way is our club a worthwhile investment? Sure, the club could be run at a profit (while the team withers on the vine) but only a very modest one. It would take many years to recoup the money needed to buy the club, and if the team struggles, crowds will dwindle too. The alternative is that they want to pump loads of money in in order to get us to the land of TV revenue, but with two promotions needed and a very limited number of promotion spots available, it's a highly risky investment. It just doesn't make sense for me.

We do have one case study for a hedge fund in football - SISU, the owners of Coventry City, who have cut costs from day one. However, they seemed to be most interested in the ground, which was owned by ACL, a trust made up of a charity and the city council. The whole dispute around the Ricoh Arena and the disgraceful move to Northampton (complete with fantastical plans to build a new stadium) looked to me like an attempt to bankrupt ACL and take ownership of the Arena for a knockdown price. A strategy that backfired when ACL sold the stadium to Wasps.

But left Cov City with only a short term tenure at the hands of a rapacious club from another sport. The FA should forbid hedge funds from any ownership in football.

[DangerousSausage]

Yep @ivansneck. But there's no money to be made in ML, so what are they up to? I'd rather accept a bid from Kim Jong-un than any hedge fund!

[Piethagoram]

@DangerousSausage A possible reason for a Hedge Fund being involved, the owners of that fund have a sizeable tax bill to pay and by buying Notts, they can offset the continuing losses ( maybe?) against the ultimate tax due, and have a little fun at running a football club at the same time. What would worry me would be the owners "detachment" from being a born and bred Notts supporter. 

[Chris]

It's just a fancy word really, if the hedge fund is in fact preparing to make an offer or for one to be accepted. It sounds like it will involve people using their own resources to invest in the club, in the sole hope that they eventually turn a profit - which is very unlikely unless we get to the Championship. I'm not really sure about it myself, I think some of the fans concerns may become true from it. Who will this hedge fund consist of? See the more questions thrown towards the takeover - the more I just want to wait for it to happen.

Colin Slater doesn't believe any news will happen this week.

I have to say, I have my doubts about the takeover happening any time soon.

[DangerousSausage]

31 minutes ago, notts-joe said:

It sounds like it will involve people using their own resources to invest in the club, in the sole hope that they eventually turn a profit - which is very unlikely unless we get to the Championship.

In that case they're either very rich - in which case, why channel it through a hedge fund? - or very stupid. I suppose all we can do is wait and see.

[liampie]

i dont understand why someone would want to purchase a club under the hedge fund.

i am not even sure why ray would consider it a serious offer, unless they offered a good sum for the club but would they put in a considerable amount to move the club forward? it seems all risky to me. its also confusing why all of a sudden the americans are not in the running.

[allardyces tash]

A hedge fund???

It sounds like desperation if you ask me. Not keen on this at all but you have to see how things go.

[ivansneck]

31 minutes ago, notts-joe said: It sounds like it will involve people using their own resources to invest in the club, in the sole hope that they eventually turn a profit - which is very unlikely unless we get to the Championship.

In that case they're either very rich - in which case, why channel it through a hedge fund? - or very stupid. I suppose all we can do is wait and see.

Or both?

[Turkey_Twizzler]

I don't like the sound of a hedge fund, why are both being so mysterious, we have no clue who wants to buy the club or their intentions but any form of group of investors can't be good, if they were any good they would be able to purchase the club as individuals rather than as a consortium/hedge fund, most clubs are owned by a single family or individual which shows it works, the drama at Coventry is the only time a hedge fund has been in charge of an English club and there's a reason for that

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[Blackville]

why would a hedge fund even want to own NCFC at this moment in time?

It just doesn't seem logical 

[NCRichie]

9 hours ago, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:

Do they even exist? What happened to the Americans that had agreed a deal? Vanished from the face of the Earth I imagine, along with the Danish.

Will Ray remain but lurk in the background?

There's talk of demands made to keep hold of certain operations. Such as the MLSB its difficult to know what to believe. I do not see it happening this week or the next.

[Who r ya?? You Pies!!]

Let's be blunt , we know nothing , this is due to the classless way any info is getting out , I mean come on , social media , let's have some official statements , with all the nuts and bolts of how it would work and who is involved, social media like PoN is great for us to chat and banter on but for info to come out about this , no sorry that's poor 

[Modern Notts Fan 🔥]

don't know how true this is but a bloke who sits behind me when he was walking in the kop stated he saw about 7-8 buisness men all in suits etc going into the pavis.

Not sure who they were or nowt he just saw them so that to me is a sign hopefully something is happening or has happened plus the tax bill has apparently been paid that was rumoured to be part of the deal the buyer an trew agreed.

Also not been funny but Colin slater does get 90% of info wrong or isn't in the kno as much as he thinks he is personally on Ray's Twitter he never once stated Americans.

Im not a fan of Ray's but to come on Twitter and publicly state the buyers who they are etc would be stupid and publicly humiliated if it's not true.

I reckon a deal maybe closing he doesn't have to personally tell Colin skater every step but again il wait and see 

[DangerousSausage]

Men in suits could be sponsors or anyone. Did they look Korean?

[Modern Notts Fan 🔥]

17 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said:

Men in suits could be sponsors or anyone. Did they look Korean?

like I said I didn't see them the bloke who sits behind me did and his son works for Mr hardy and says he was passionate about getting the club and offers a decent amount.

But all I got told there was about 8 of them all businessmen didn't say they was Asian I belive they was white 

[Turkey_Twizzler]

17 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said: Men in suits could be sponsors or anyone. Did they look Korean?

like I said I didn't see them the bloke who sits behind me did and his son works for Mr hardy and says he was passionate about getting the club and offers a decent amount.

But all I got told there was about 8 of them all businessmen didn't say they was Asian I belive they was white 

I saw them and they all looked British, there was quite a few of them aswell so I'd suspect it was the hedge fund

[DangerousSausage]

1 minute ago, ohstanleyaborah said:

I saw them and they all looked British, there was quite a few of them aswell so I'd suspect it was the hedge fund

Hopefully Mr Trew told them "thanks but no thanks" then.

[Modern Notts Fan 🔥]

1 hour ago, DangerousSausage said:

Hopefully Mr Trew told them "thanks but no thanks" then.

that's odd Consdering the tax bill was paid and it's rumoured that was part of the agreement of the deal but who knows 

[Chris]

It could have something to do with the security company that was chasing us originally back in 2009.

It's came to my attention certain tweets but I'm also hearing a few other mumblings about the hedge fund, if true (and it's a BIG if) - I don't think it would be a bad thing. I think when you first read it, your bound to be concerned but if money is invested wisely there's little difference over normal owners/investors. All will have an exit strategy, all will want to make money but in football that's a very hard thing.

However, if it's base on multiple investors who share the responsibility - I think it could work. It all depends on the set-up of chairman, who's involved - you don't want a group of people scrobbling over power trips.

[DangerousSausage]

9 minutes ago, notts-joe said:

It could have something to do with the security company that was chasing us originally back in 2009.

It's came to my attention certain tweets but I'm also hearing a few other mumblings about the hedge fund, if true (and it's a BIG if) - I don't think it would be a bad thing. I think when you first read it, your bound to be concerned but if money is invested wisely there's little difference over normal owners/investors. All will have an exit strategy, all will want to make money but in football that's a very hard thing.

However, if it's base on multiple investors who share the responsibility - I think it could work. It all depends on the set-up of chairman, who's involved - you don't want a group of people scrobbling over power trips.

I don't agree that any potential owner will be looking to make money - they might be in it for fun, as an ego trip or to bolster their own profile and businesses, but football is a virtually guaranteed way to tip your money down the drain.

A hedge fund is designed to deliver a profit for its investors. So why invest in something as risky as a football club? It's like betting your pension on a horse. How are they planning to make money from Notts?

[Turkey_Twizzler]

I'm unsure of how to spell his name but many are saying that it could be the guy from 2009 that owned Octavian security, many believe he is one of the parties, he is Asian and does currently live in America

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[Melikepie]

Perhaps they are planning on offsetting Notts' losses against there profits for a nice bit of tax relief? Pump enough money in with capable people in charge and you could potentially do a Bournemouth and get a guaranteed £100m? As long as you don't spend more than £100m getting to the premier, its instant profit and as I said earlier, it lets them offset taxable income

[DangerousSausage]

I'll have to pass on the tax idea as I don't know what's legal and what's not, but getting Notts into the top flight would not exactly generate an instant profit, @Melikepie, as it would require three promotions, which is anything but a given even with huge investment. If that's all there was to it, we'd be at least a division higher. Why would a fourth division club with modest gates and a bigger city rival limiting its potential be seen as a good bet for the Premier League?

Put it another way: people pay money into these funds because they want a return on their investment. They want to put 50k in and take 100k out, and they don't care how it's achieve. If you put your savings into a fund, would you be happy if they went and bought a football club?

It leaves a bad smell for me. Getting a slight feeling of deja vu right now.