The Election...

[PTID1862]

It's such a perfect day....

[Northants Pie]

It's such a perfect day....

 

For you maybe

[Chris Website URL Visit Site 𝕏 fmcj10 Instagram fmcj10]

I personally hope Ed steps down now, he's not suitable to lead a political party and it's time to get someone in who can speak to the people! Not do interviews with other annoying people.

As far it goes for good old David, I hope he reconsiders attacking the vulnerable and sick.

After what happened to his son, I can't imagine a reasonable, compassionate person screwing over so many who require the supporting hand of the nation in which we live. Screw benefit thieves and the idol sods who cannot be bothered to work, attack them and get them back into work but DO NOT tell someone who suffers from MS badly that they can work full time when they can barely move.

This country should be 'great' but it's not, it's pathetic and the kindness which changed from cruel, neglect is creeping back into the system.

It's easier to attack those that need the support and help, than it is to face up to tax dodgers, benefit thieves and clowns who steal money in a well paid, professional positions.

Sorry but the Torries winning is an absolute joke and it highlights how poor politics are these days.

[PTID1862]

There are massive shortcomings in our electoral system! However, under that system, the electorate have had their say.

@hissingdwarf will agree I am sure, that this is not just the right but should be their responsibility.

So like it or not, call it a joke or not, call Tory suppprters scum or not... it is what it is!

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Well that couldn't have gone much worse. 

[Feral Fox]

Unfortunately the Country should be in mourning today, because yesterday if they thought it was bad with the cuts, they ain't seen nothing yet!

Goodbye to the NHS, hello to more privatisation and cuts which will do exactly that, cut deep into millions of families hearts.

 

On a local level, personally we had a fantastic day. We went from a majority of 192 in 2010 to over 8000 yesterday. I suspect the campaign manager, Beth will be in high demand across the country next week as we (the Labour Party here in Ashfield) were ran like a well oiled machine from start to finish and that shows in the majority. 

 

I walked over 25 miles yesterday (and boy do I know it today) and knocked on countless doors and it shows that when it is done right, it does work. The Country now needs reap what it sowed yesterday and remember this in 5 years time.

[Feral Fox]

Good decision for Ed Milliband to resign. We now need a real figurehead who can rattle cages, 

[PTID1862]

Thanks must go to Nicola Sturgeon... the vote snp and keep the Conservatives out of Downing Street proved to be one of our best rallying cries...

[Dripsey3]

When it came down to it, the people of the UK did not trust Ed to run the country. I suspect a lot of people changed their mind when they went to put an x in the box. I can't understand why Labour would not agree to give the people of the UK a vote on their future in the EU. People have a right to vote on something where there is little or no democratic accountability and which is going in a direction that is alien to the beliefs and customs of the UK. 

[Feral Fox]

Thanks must go to Nicola Sturgeon... the vote snp and keep the Conservatives out of Downing Street proved to be one of our best rallying cries...

The SNP fear factor was by far the biggest issue of this election. People feared them being involved, thus didn't vote for anything rather than right leaning. Why would they tbf? We now have a dysfunctional term of 5 years with the most divided country we've ever seen.

I do think it will be a bumpy ride for the next 5 years for your lot though. Relying on the Back Benches the whole time could see the country go further to the right!

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Thanks must go to Nicola Sturgeon... the vote snp and keep the Conservatives out of Downing Street proved to be one of our best rallying cries...

This.

A lot of people didn't vote Labour because they thought they would pal up with the SNP. Which if Labour had gained a few more seats, was the only thing they could have done to get in govt. 

[DangerousSausage]

I didn't see that coming at all. In a way it's similar to the last election in Germany - the ruling CDU increased its vote, but mostly due to the collapse of its coalition partner and ended up having to get the social democrats on board. Only the Tories will probably have the luxury of ruling alone despite commanding fewer votes.

 

Personally I wouldn't trust Blue Ed to run a bath, never mind the country, but anything would have been better than a continuation of the previous reign of terror. Ultimately Labour lost on two fronts: they lost their traditional working class heartlands in Scotland when opposed by a left-of-centre party with a realistic chance of winning; and they couldn't reassure middle England either. UKIP are now second in many northern seats, and that could be the next earthquake if they're not careful.

 

For five long years the Tories have been allowed to completely dominate the political debate. They have consistently laid the blame for the global financial crash at Labour's door, and instead of countering this and arriving at the correct conclusions, Labour have simply meekly accepted it and bought in to the austerity agenda. They have failed to protect working class people (the cuts were implemented by Labour councils!!!) while at the same time failing to win the middle class vote in areas where Tony Blair made such headway. They've completely failed across the board. For their part, the Tories simply employed their usual scare tactics, this time targeting the Scottish bogeyman. And they now have the nerve to preach about a "united UK".

 

In other news, The Lib Dems got 8 seats too many and UKIP got one seat too many.

 

The future is not looking bright.

[DangerousSausage]

This.

A lot of people didn't vote Labour because they thought they would pal up with the SNP. Which if Labour had gained a few more seats, was the only thing they could have done to get in govt. 

 

Why shouldn't Scotland be represented in a future government? They're part of the UK after all. And a group of SNP MPs couldn't force independence (or another referendum) anyway as Labour and the Tories would have simply voted them down. The whole thing was a complete non-issue.

 

Of course, this is a point Labour completely chickened out of making!

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Why shouldn't Scotland be represented in a future government? They're part of the UK after all. And a group of SNP MPs couldn't force independence (or another referendum) anyway as Labour and the Tories would have simply voted them down. The whole thing was a complete non-issue.

 

Of course, this is a point Labour completely chickened out of making!

Not many people wanted SNP interfering/voting on issues that affect England and not Scotland. 

Also, a lot of people, myself included, find the SNP to have terrible policies and agendas. 

[Chris Website URL Visit Site 𝕏 fmcj10 Instagram fmcj10]

Scotland want to be independent, well at least the SNP - I don't see why they want to have a say on something they don't want to be apart of and they shouldn't. I don't even know why they're in the running, as far as I know and am concerned, the Welsh government don't - why do they?

Fair play to David for winning, it's a huge mistake though.

[Feral Fox]

Scotland want to be independent, well at least the SNP - I don't see why they want to have a say on something they don't want to be apart of and they shouldn't. I don't even know why they're in the running, as far as I know and am concerned, the Welsh government don't - why do they?

Fair play to David for winning, it's a huge mistake though.

Agreed with the huge mistake part. Not sure that Cameron won, more like people were scared of the SNP and Labour being held up by them so only had one place to go. The Lib Dem results shows how people can put trust in a party one moment then whip it away again (correctly though tbf) the next.

The only winner tonight is the right of centre parties. We'll see what is to come now. 

With such a small majority he may well be led down an even more drastic path than we have seen for the last five years, and let's be clear to one and all, its not been great so far!!!

 

 

As I said previously the only real way forward is to adopt proportional representation. Can't ever see it happening though.

[PTID1862]

Also a point of fact is that quite a number of those that voted Conservative did so on the economy. Quite simply the Labour policy there just wasn't acceptable or believed or to be honest trusted by some that quite rightly trust the Conservatives with the economy.

You can say of course that the Conservatives are laying the blame at the door of the Labour party and it wasn't their fault. Really?

That added to the SNP campaign statement, The EU referendum, and Ed himself, meant that really it was always going to be a Cons win... But in terms of where they came from and how far the other parties are now behind, this was a huge win.

Neither Blair or Thatcher managed to win a second term and increase the amount of seats their parties commanded.

Thank heavens (IMO) we don't have to listen to "We'll keep the Red Rag flying high" at least for a while... Phew

[Northants Pie]

Also a point of fact is that quite a number of those that voted Conservative did so on the economy. Quite simply the Labour policy there just wasn't acceptable or believed or to be honest trusted by some that quite rightly trust the Conservatives with the economy.

You can say of course that the Conservatives are laying the blame at the door of the Labour party and it wasn't their fault. Really?

That added to the SNP campaign statement, The EU referendum, and Ed himself, meant that really it was always going to be a Cons win... But in terms of where they came from and how far the other parties are now behind, this was a huge win.

Neither Blair or Thatcher managed to win a second term and increase the amount of seats their parties commanded.

Thank heavens (IMO) we don't have to listen to "We'll keep the Red Rag flying high" at least for a while... Phew

 

How do you think you will fair under the next 12 Billion of savings this government has said it will make?

 

Just out of interest & I always wonder this and you don't have to tell me but which of the Tories policies etc make you better off and or make it a better place for your family?

[PTID1862]

I will fair just fine under the next round of cuts!

As a responsible sort, I only buy what I can afford, or should I say only buy what I have the money for. So if I don't physically have it, I can't spend it. Forgive me for thinking that the country should also be run on similar lines, and while we are here Notts for that matter. You cut your cloth!

If in making these cuts, our country becomes more prosperous, invites more business, invites new thinking and promotes the belief that making a living is there, IF you chose to work for it.... This most certainly benefits me and makes me better off and makes it a better place for my family.

I also believe that it is right the country should have its say on our future within the European Union. So whilst others offered a definite out, a definite in... The Conservatives have promised to allow the country to have its say. I personally do not believe we will be detrimentally harmed by leaving he EU.

You asked, now of course there are more reasons why I voted for them, but as you put in a previous post.... I am Tory Scum

[Northants Pie]

I will fair just fine under the next round of cuts!

As a responsible sort, I only buy what I can afford, or should I say only buy what I have the money for. So if I don't physically have it, I can't spend it. Forgive me for thinking that the country should also be run on similar lines, and while we are here Notts for that matter. You cut your cloth!

If in making these cuts, our country becomes more prosperous, invites more business, invites new thinking and promotes the belief that making a living is there, IF you chose to work for it.... This most certainly benefits me and makes me better off and makes it a better place for my family.

I also believe that it is right the country should have its say on our future within the European Union. So whilst others offered a definite out, a definite in... The Conservatives have promised to allow the country to have its say. I personally do not believe we will be detrimentally harmed by leaving he EU.

You asked, now of course there are more reasons why I voted for them, but as you put in a previous post.... I am Tory Scum

 

 

Firstly I called the Conservative party scum, not yourself so apologies if it came across that way, you vote for who you want, you believe what you want.

 

I agree with people living within their means, the issue with that for a country like ours is that if people didn't overspend then we couldn't possibly attract more business as there would be nobody buying any products, reckless overspending is completely wrong and what we need to get a grip of, but then again any government could do this but that would mean putting restrictions on the underhand and completely wrong financial system that we have but that is a conversation for another day

 

If you were unfortunate to fall ill through no fault of your own would you expect to be given the help you need to support you whilst you recovered or would you expect to be told that against all medial advice you are fit for work, a caveat to that is that your condition means that no company could possibly get public liability insurance for you so you can't get a job anyway, is that a fair system that is in place?

[Feral Fox]

I will fair just fine under the next round of cuts!As a responsible sort, I only buy what I can afford, or should I say only buy what I have the money for. So if I don't physically have it, I can't spend it. Forgive me for thinking that the country should also be run on similar lines, and while we are here Notts for that matter. You cut your cloth!If in making these cuts, our country becomes more prosperous, invites more business, invites new thinking and promotes the belief that making a living is there, IF you chose to work for it.... This most certainly benefits me and makes me better off and makes it a better place for my family.I also believe that it is right the country should have its say on our future within the European Union. So whilst others offered a definite out, a definite in... The Conservatives have promised to allow the country to have its say. I personally do not believe we will be detrimentally harmed by leaving he EU.You asked, now of course there are more reasons why I voted for them, but as you put in a previous post.... I am Tory Scum

On the economy point and borrowing, you do realise that in the last five years, the Tories have borrowed more than the previous Labour government (which even by my standards wasn't good enough) did? A quarter of a trillion more. All that and still 450000 relying on food banks to survive. The largest number ever recorded since records began in Victorian times.

I agree with the personal point about borrowing. I too say if it isn't in my pocket I can't buy it. And I will say that the consumerism credit card idea did get far too large.

I also say leaving families to struggle to feed their kids is not the way to teach right from wrong. Especially whilst tax cuts for millionaires are being introduced!

[PTID1862]

@Northants Pie I cannot comment on the specifics of an individual. It is clearly an individual case you are discussing, but:

No, I do not believe it is right for somebody to be deemed fit for work, if they are not! However, I also do not think it right for people to be deemed unfit for work, who in actual fact have less wrong with them than I do. Somebody who has worked all of his adult life (since 17) apart from a period of a few weeks... 4 or 5.... something like that anyway. My body isn't great, I cannot work anywhere there is noise, I cannot work in an office environment, I cannot work anywhere that requires me to answer a phone very easily. In fact with ailments, there are no end of places and situations I cannot work in. I would however be deemed fit to work. We are different, I have seen my neighbours not work a day in their lives, have more than I, have immaculate houses and gardens, a new car every couple of years... and there was absolutely nothing wrong with them. They readily admitted that, they simply played the system. Is this right? why should I pay for this? again though this is an individual case. there can be many of these brought up for both sides of the same argument. If you cannot get insurance for somebody then, clearly you cannot employ them, this makes them unemployable! Not unfit for work! They are two different things. Rightly or wrongly I believe that you should be entitled to the best health care available, You will note that certain health care for me isn't available on the NHS, therefore I have paid for it, that was my choice. Is that fair? Probably not, but it is the way of things, certain treatments get put by the wayside when restrictions are in place, I have a treatment needed, which is considered cosmetic and no longer available on the NHS. Financially, I would support myself, I have that luxury, however I believe that for those that TRULY need it, then the help is and should be there!

There is absolutely no need for people to overspend, I cannot agree with the statement that you need to overspend and get yourself into debt in order to promote business!

look at it like this... Do you aspire to make anything of your life? To achieve? To own your home, and everything in it? Do you wish for a good, better life for you and yours? Those are points which initially drew me to the Conservatives! They were not the "class struggle party" This from somebody who has grown up, living on an estate which was council owned, with both parents who worked, and both were trade unionists NUPE and CWU, In fact one was the Chair of NUPE in Notts! I have lived with and seen/heard at first hand the good and the very bad work that can be done by unions also, this is most certainly a discussion for another time.

I aspired, I became determined, I wasn't going to be somebody who bleated on about how unfair things were, I was going to make a difference for myself, I was actually going to aim for something higher than I had had, and I did!

You could say the very bad things about the traditional Labour ideology is what helped to push me to be a Tory, or vote for them, believe in that way, and live my life that way.

Under the Conservatives previously it wasn't just those that could afford the education who got it, My own family couldn't afford it, but they got it, by performing well enough o be offered an assisted place, so being educated at Trent College, now this of course wasn't good enough for the incoming labour party, how dare people try and be better, we shall scrap these assisted places, therefore the only people to gain a public education will be those who can afford it. This in itself does not necessarily make that education better than the state system, but it appears to help in the long run. Is that wrong for people to want that? I guess so... how dare we wish to be better.

It will be interesting to see which direction Labour go, do they remain the "Class struggle party", that Red Ed has tried to portray, or do they go back to some of the Aspirational Blair policies? The country has by and large seen through the Class struggle, and they wish to aspire, to achieve, IMO this is the only way forward!

That seems quite a rant, it isn't I just genuinely put down my thoughts. I want our country to succeed and be a better place for everyone, not sit there looking up at an alleged elite and moaning.

[Northants Pie]

@Northants Pie I cannot comment on the specifics of an individual. It is clearly an individual case you are discussing, but:

No, I do not believe it is right for somebody to be deemed fit for work, if they are not! However, I also do not think it right for people to be deemed unfit for work, who in actual fact have less wrong with them than I do. 

 

I couldn't agree more, the issue is how they go about checking the individual conditions

 

Somebody who has worked all of his adult life (since 17) apart from a period of a few weeks... 4 or 5.... something like that anyway. My body isn't great, I cannot work anywhere there is noise, I cannot work in an office environment, I cannot work anywhere that requires me to answer a phone very easily. In fact with ailments, there are no end of places and situations I cannot work in. I would however be deemed fit to work. 

 

I was in a similar position that I had worked unbroken for 11 years after college then had to stop in late 2010 due to my wife's condition (she was diagnosed with in 2006) severely deteriorating, now we had up until that point got by as best we could but due to the very real chance of loss of life I had to stop work.

 

We are different, I have seen my neighbours not work a day in their lives, have more than I, have immaculate houses and gardens, a new car every couple of years... and there was absolutely nothing wrong with them. They readily admitted that, they simply played the system. Is this right? why should I pay for this? 

 

No, no one should pay for people who are readily "playing" the system. Maybe if the DWP actually asked the doctors in charge of the patients care rather than creating a bigger platform for the liers & cheats to get away with it then you would actually find the bill would be reduced massively. With the current PIP / ESA system those who scam the system can get away with it more as the DWP DON'T ask GP & Specialists for their opinions on the alleged conditions.

 

again though this is an individual case. there can be many of these brought up for both sides of the same argument. If you cannot get insurance for somebody then, clearly you cannot employ them, this makes them unemployable! Not unfit for work! They are two different things.

 

I used it merely to highlight the lacking's of the system put in place by the Tories, those who genuinely suffer are being turned down as they don't lie & exaggerate their conditions. 

 

Rightly or wrongly I believe that you should be entitled to the best health care available, You will note that certain health care for me isn't available on the NHS, therefore I have paid for it, that was my choice. Is that fair? Probably not, but it is the way of things, certain treatments get put by the wayside when restrictions are in place, I have a treatment needed, which is considered cosmetic and no longer available on the NHS. Financially, I would support myself, I have that luxury, however I believe that for those that TRULY need it, then the help is and should be there!

 

Couldn't agree more.

There is absolutely no need for people to overspend, I cannot agree with the statement that you need to overspend and get yourself into debt in order to promote business!

 

As a country we need to minimally like a mortgage or car finance for those who can truly afford it but again that is more to do with the bent financial systems in place

look at it like this... Do you aspire to make anything of your life? To achieve? To own your home, and everything in it? Do you wish for a good, better life for you and yours? Those are points which initially drew me to the Conservatives! They were not the "class struggle party" This from somebody who has grown up, living on an estate which was council owned, with both parents who worked, and both were trade unionists NUPE and CWU, In fact one was the Chair of NUPE in Notts! I have lived with and seen/heard at first hand the good and the very bad work that can be done by unions also, this is most certainly a discussion for another time.

I aspired, I became determined, I wasn't going to be somebody who bleated on about how unfair things were, I was going to make a difference for myself, I was actually going to aim for something higher than I had had, and I did!

 

We did & do aspire to better everything about our lives but unfortunately that was in the majority taken from us by ill health, that's not moaning just reality for us.

You could say the very bad things about the traditional Labour ideology is what helped to push me to be a Tory, or vote for them, believe in that way, and live my life that way.

 

For me not one party is unequivocally right, not one party has the balls to do what is needed to correct the slide in our country, for me you only vote on those who will benefit your own life the most

Under the Conservatives previously it wasn't just those that could afford the education who got it, My own family couldn't afford it, but they got it, by performing well enough o be offered an assisted place, so being educated at Trent College, now this of course wasn't good enough for the incoming labour party, how dare people try and be better, we shall scrap these assisted places, therefore the only people to gain a public education will be those who can afford it. This in itself does not necessarily make that education better than the state system, but it appears to help in the long run. Is that wrong for people to want that? I guess so... how dare we wish to be better.

 

See the answer above

It will be interesting to see which direction Labour go, do they remain the "Class struggle party", that Red Ed has tried to portray, or do they go back to some of the Aspirational Blair policies? The country has by and large seen through the Class struggle, and they wish to aspire, to achieve, IMO this is the only way forward!

 

This should be the only way forward for parties with the caveat of helping those genuinely in need of it, and properly supporting those out of work back into work not penalising them to hit a target number and force them into the gutter as with the current PIP / ESA system it only hits those genuinely trying to get a job not those who can't be arsed.

 

BTW Blair is a penis, for me the only way forward for Labour has to be the reality of a changing society and to properly meet those needs not stick by the time honored rituals of the past

That seems quite a rant, it isn't I just genuinely put down my thoughts. I want our country to succeed and be a better place for everyone, not sit there looking up at an alleged elite and moaning.

 

 

[PTID1862]

@Northants Pie it sounds to me as though you are a disenchanted Tory, or at least a Red Tory who doesnt like Mr Blair (I agree with your sentiment btw). But labour going back to the left/far left will IMO see them in the wilderness for a fair while.

[Feral Fox]

@Northants Pie it sounds to me as though you are a disenchanted Tory, or at least a Red Tory who doesnt like Mr Blair (I agree with your sentiment btw). But labour going back to the left/far left will IMO see them in the wilderness for a fair while.

I think the result on the 7th showed that Labour needs to occupy the centre-left ground from now on. I'm left of that, but I fear not as I expect the country to swing so far to the right in the next few years even Karl Marx himself would look like Tony Blair in disguise!!!

 

In all seriousness, I'm not convinced they can go 5 years anyway productively. I'm sure all it will take is a few walkers to cross over and the odd by-election and then the minority kicks in and seeming as UKIP failed in its promise of seats the rest of the house would probably join together to vote down the Tories.

 

Labour now has to spend alot of time reassessing its views on policies that will touch everyone in the country. Yes the terrible unfair wealth distribution needs correcting, but it was far too much ' the poor vs the the rich' this time and that left out the rest of the Country! Labour needs to represent the future of the majority of the Country.

 

Now we have a chance to elect a new leader who will hopefully do just that.