Football: Then...and Now.

[Lozzle1]

Last night, I caught-up with the BBC documentary: "Sir Bobby Charlton at 80". For anyone who's not yet seen it, the documentary followed the ups and downs of this Legendary footballer's career and also featured other (younger) footballers talking about their time working with, and around him.

A very interesting ethos that Sir Bobby appeared to have been taught when he first arrived at Manchester United (and which he gladly passed on to the likes of Beckham, Giggs, Cantona and any others who followed in his footsteps at Man U) was that "behind all the gardens, yards and terraces of the local Manchester area, were men and women who did shift work in factories and worked extremely hard all week long, to then utilise a part of their hard-earned money to come to Old Trafford 'to be entertained' by the football played. Charlton, said the younger men, a) never failed to forget it and b) never failed to pass it on to the younger lads.

In view of the recent comments by KN regarding Notts fans, which clearly (to me) demonstrates that perhaps Charlton's ethos is currently 'unimportant'; 'doesn't matter' 'forgotten about' or 'disregarded' at Meadow Lane, who's right?

Is it Charlton for believing - to this day, as he continues to represent Man U - that his job WAS/IS to 'entertain paying fans' or KN who appears not to like fans criticizing his decisions, having a voice or whatever else he was trying to say in his recent 'rant?

I'd be very interested to hear too, whether others think this 'respect' for fee-paying supporters is 'old school'; needs to be reinstated or doesn't/shouldn't matter, today?

[Chris]

Football matters that's for sure.

I think there's different moulds in people, some are thankful for the opportunity given to them and others think they have a divine right because they got to where they was (without acknowledging the breaks or people that helped them). One issue is the fact that people take modern day football for granted, clubs especially fall within this bracket - they have become more business orientated and such they forget about certain things.

Nolan might want to try to appreciate where people are coming from even when he doesn't agree, this is something I have learned more myself.

[liampie]

i like nolan i really do but hes smug and not many fans notice this.

speak with fans who watched him play in the premier league and they will tell you he does not like criticism. he does not seem to acknowledge his failures either but most successful people dont. i think its important we give this outburst by nolan regarding modern football a chance to rest.

he made a mistake, hopefully he will apologise one day.

[allardyces tash]

Did anyone read his comments for MOTD2 extra?

Thank you for writing this up @Joe Jones.

Does anyone see the conflicting comments made by Nolan here?

[TheSkipper]

Football constantly changes, people are different and Nolan is just stuck in his times.

[Joe Jones]

To play devil's advocate:

Football is a completely different beast to how it was in the olden days. Back then a game cost a lot less, footballers' wages were on a par with the working person (or at least no more than a few multiples, compared to the several hundredfold you get nowadays), footballers weren't celebrities whose every move on and off the pitch was monitored, scrutinised and criticised ad infinitum - and with social media it can be beamed directly to them compared to in the past where such opinions never left the pub - and the stakes within the game weren't as high as nowadays.

Yes, Nolan needs to acknowledge that the game - and society as a whole - has changed and there's nothing he can do about it. He and his fellow club staff in the spotlight are now celebrities who will come under scrutiny, social media will allow the individuals criticised to see it for themselves, and given how much proportion of money fans are now blowing on football, there is more scope for anger when things don't go right. I think his comments were misplaced and my opinion of him has gone down as a result.

But at the same time, there are fans out there whose criticism of players, coaches, the club etc borders on the abusive and eventually, everyone will crack - and Nolan definitely did. Maybe that was his "I would LUV it if we beat Man United" moment?

That said, targeting PON - which is a sensible, decent, head-screwed-on community - was uncalled for, and it says more about him than it does about us.

[DangerousSausage]

A very interesting post. The first point about footballers aiming to entertain the fans is a valid one but doesn't take into account the level we're at. Manchester United were and are at the very pinnacle of the game and could afford that kind of ethos. But Notts are currently one, maybe two levels below what we see as our natural level and Kevin Nolan's job is to get the results to take us back up there. He clearly (rightly or wrongly) believes that a more direct style is more likely to get results. Ultimately the fans will be happier if we win promotion playing kick and rush than if we land in mid-table playing a passing game. Our two most successful post-war managers were well known for favouring a physical and direct style of play yet I don't recall too many fans objecting while we were getting the results!

The other point is how KN responds to criticism. Footballers and managers live in a kind of bubble. From his point of view, he coaches the players, watches them train, knows who is on top of his game and who is carrying a knock or low in confidence and therefore he knows best. He also had a pretty illustrious playing career of his own while most of us just watch a match every Saturday, so it's understandable that he feels he knows best. He needs media skills so that he doesn't come across as condescending.

At the same time a manager needs to avoid being too stubborn. The jury is still out there.

[Chris]

Personally, it seemed that we had found a rare type of manager in Kevin Nolan that would just get on with things - yet he's confirmed this isn't the case.

He's just like everyone else, though I do rate him as a manager and as a former footballer (very underrated). I think he will better himself and have a very respectable managerial career, yet I have this impression if it does happen that he will forget about Notts County. The modest, down-to-earth persona seems like a massive cover up to me. This said, I just want him to keep his focus but it's certainly going to be interesting between now and the new year.

[Piethagoram]

Nolan has the traits of Big Sam. Man management being the strong point. I am less certain of coaching ability. Big Sam relied on Mark Smith to begin with. Nolan relies on Richard Thomas a lot. What does concern me, the similarities with Derry in playing style...how can players, who played at the highest level, where playing to feet generally rules, abandon such principles for a longer ball game?

[DangerousSausage]

1 hour ago, Piethagoram said:

Nolan has the traits of Big Sam. Man management being the strong point. I am less certain of coaching ability. Big Sam relied on Mark Smith to begin with. Nolan relies on Richard Thomas a lot.

Actually I think it can be a good thing when a manager is aware of his limitations and is willing to delegate. Jimmy Sirrel brought Howard Wilkinson to the club and passed on coaching duties to him as he knew he couldn't take us into the top flight himself. Part of being a good manager is being able to assess your own abilities and those of others and use them to the best possible effect. Of course, that makes it all the more important that you surround yourself with competent people.

[Chris]

Very good, and thoughtful exchange being shared above.

27 minutes ago, DangerousSausage said:

Part of being a good manager is being able to assess your own abilities and those of others and use them to the best possible effect. Of course, that makes it all the more important that you surround yourself with competent people.

This is all very much true, however you need to trust and give back sometimes in order for these to become true strengths.

We see Kevin Nolan acknowledging the coaching staff, he's praised them heaps of times (sometimes for very little) and he also brought the coaching team into the frame with the Manager of the Month award which is a good trait.

Surrounding yourself around competent people is all very well, when you can draw from them and add to your own experience but in situations whereby you might not understand the situation completely yourself - why go it alone? I think the point @Piethagoram makes is that to be a good top flight division you need a good pedigree to go further, having players who are skillful and capable on the ball is a must - not many teams rely on route one as the only way to attack games. I know people bang on about Stoke City (for example) but they use their midfield wisely and play some very good football on the ground.

League Two football is often hoof central but we have totally taken it to the extreme as of late and the manager should set the example of how we should break the chain.