Dortmund salvage a late home draw with Mainz, but lose title race to Bayern

[Piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram]

 

[Piethagoram]

 

[liampie]

i would rather see a different team than bayern win the German league, even dortmund. both clubs dominate the league like manchester city/any other 2nd place premier team. i wished the other team won.

[Piethagoram]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65714772

[DangerousSausage]

I saw it unfold on TV (German Sky do a "conference" where they flick from one match to the other). Dear oh dear. BVB were absolutely bricking it and were deservedly two goals down before they'd even started to get into the game. A frustrating watch. Bayern at Cologne were little better, but they at least produced a moment of magic when it counted. For a while it looked like Cologne were going to hand Dortmund the title.

BVB had to win at home to secure the title and they failed. They'll never have a better shot at it than this season. The only other challenger I can see next season is RB Leipzig, and I'd rather Bayern win it the next 30 years than they get anywhere near it. 

[Chris]

Union Berling? Has this team renamed from something else? They seem to have done fantastically well. I am not familiar with their name.

I wish Mainz had won. Only two teams usually win in the German league, and Bayern is one of them. They often buy players from other clubs, weakening the league.

[DangerousSausage]

18 minutes ago, Chris said:

Union Berling? Has this team renamed from something else? They seem to have done fantastically well.

No, but this is only their third season in the Bundesliga and they're punching well above their weight. Apart from winning the East German cup in 1968 their trophy cabinet is completely empty. Now they'll be Berlin's only Bundesliga club - what an opportunity for them! Don't expect them to be competing for the title any time soon though - Bayern can sign some of the world's top talent, while Union lost their top scorer to Florist.

Bayern spend more than twice as much on players than the next team, so it's hardly surprising that they're dominant. Many of the clubs that have traditionally competed with them - Bremen, Stuttgart - have gone backwards, and Schalke have just been relegated for the second time in three seasons. 

[KB1862]

It's almost a formality that Bayern come out on top of the Bundesliga. Dortmund did well to push them though and the gaps closing at the top more teams are appearing to compete. 

It's very hard for any other team to compete with Bayern. I know they have the 50+1 rule in Germany but a club as big as them, it'll take something extraordinary for someone to compete with them financially. 

The Bundesliga is a bit like the Premier League in a sense that teams surprise others by getting a one off result or challenge for top 4. 

Bayern and Man City, currently, are the 2 teams that might get caught by an odd result every now and again, be pushed for the title and get some dominant wins but they manage to pretty much always come out on top and it's hard to see them being caught. 

[BromPie]

The league appears predominantly one-sided, but occasionally, the underdogs manage to excel. It can be argued that around three teams merit greater success in comparison to Bayern.

[thommo]

I’m glad Dortmund didn’t win it, but I had hoped Union Berlin could do a Leicester City and become a true fairy tale story in football. I didn’t want Bayern to win either, but at that stage of the games it was either one of them.

[DangerousSausage]

Agreed @KB1862. In the Premier League there has often been artificial competition created when clubs receive a lot of investment - Chelsea and Manchester City have risen to the top and shaken up the old older that way, and Newcastle may be next. One effect of 50+1 is that it's much more difficult for clubs to gain enough outside investment to challenge Bayern financially. So you have a situation where they're massively outspending the rest.

Also, the Bundesliga is slowly filling up with clubs whose only objective is to stay in it. Heidenheim, Darmstadt and Augsburg are there on merit, but they won't be challenging for honours any time soon.

After Bayern, the clubs with the most German titles are Nuremberg (they had the most as recently as 1989), Dortmund, Schalke, Hamburg and Stuttgart. Only two of those will be in the top flight next season, and Nuremberg are grateful to still be in the second. So where is the competition coming from? 

[KB1862]

@DangerousSausage never really looked at that flip side to the 50+1 rule tbf. Interesting take on it. 

It just seems to be that clubs with the most investment or means to get money almost always guarantee themselves as top teams challenging year after year. Which is why we have such a love for the FA Cup as there are upsets galore that happen along the way before ultimately a "top" team wins it but a few surprises happen either along the way or a fairytale end. 

I think leagues like the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga could have done with the Super League going ahead as it would provide better competition. Obviously in the end there may be clubs that find a way to get the investment to out spend and dominate once again. 

Serie A is one league that you often look at and believe it's not a league that just one team dominates. There may be the same old at the top but even then new teams rise up and claim them spots.

[TheSkipper]

I’m not a fan of Dortmund or Bayern, but I prefer Dortmund to win the German league. Many German clubs have tried to make the league more competitive, but it’s hard when those two clubs snap up any good young players. The rest tend to get picked by other European teams.

[KB1862]

@TheSkipper it's not even the 2 that pick up the players from the league. Dortmund go for the younger players and develop them, which is great to see, the likes of Bellingham going from Birmingham to Dortmund and becoming a fantastic midfielder that he is. Jadon Sancho developed himself there. 

I always say if a young player wants to develop themselves, avoid big clubs in England and go to the Bundesliga. They have an incredible talent of developing players. 

Bayern on the other hand buy who ever they want and even manage to snap up players from Dortmund for a ridiculously low price. In England, players switch for 50m+. 

[CliftonMagpie]

It’s unfortunate that Dortmund didn’t win the league. I enjoy watching German football as they have some very entertaining teams. Even Bayern doesn’t always have it easy. Union Berlin supporters are fantastic. I once read that they helped purchase their stadium.

[DangerousSausage]

15 hours ago, TheSkipper said:

I’m not a fan of Dortmund or Bayern, but I prefer Dortmund to win the German league. Many German clubs have tried to make the league more competitive, but it’s hard when those two clubs snap up any good young players.

It's not really a Real/Barca situation. Before Klopp turned up, BVB were fighting relegation, and they've only won the Bundesliga five times in total (twice under Klopp). One issue is that most of the clubs that traditionally chase Bayern along with them have fallen by the wayside. How competitive would the Premier League be if it were just Man City and Spurs and Brentford fighting for the title, with Man United, Liverpool and Chelsea in the Championship? The Bundesliga is a bit like that right now.

Dortmund tend to buy in young players, but there are plenty of other clubs renowned for their youth work. One is Freiburg, who finished fifth in the Bundesliga and whose under 23s just finished second in the third division (a league higher than Bayern's, and as high as B teams are allowed to go). But they're a small club who will never realistically compete for the title. 

[KB1862]

@DangerousSausage I tend to think this is the case with German football. It's almost as if these clubs who can't compete with Bayern get the best out of youth players. Develop them and then once they're at a certain level, if none other European team comes in for them, Bayern snap them up and it's nothing of a special price. 

It's a situation why people enjoy watching lower league football. The championship is an incredibly competitive league. The amount of times that it comes to the final day and anyone from 12th upwards can claim a play off spot. 

The Premier League has its competitiveness throughout the season but ultimately ends in the same fashion of the same teams getting top with the occasional lesser team managing to get a European place which is a big achievement. 

It's a shame that clubs fall off as much as they do when they were once competing for the title. 

[AmericanPie]

I also appreciate Dortmund's approach to recruitment and player development. Their focus on young, talented players has worked well for them in the past, and it is great to see a club actively investing in youth development. As for German football, I find it incredibly thrilling and impressive. The high tempo and intensity of the matches, combined with tactical prowess, make for a fantastic watching experience.