The goalkeeping situation

[Fan of Big Tone]

I hate making scapegoats but watching the live stream yesterday I do think Aidan Stone could have done better with some if not all the goals yesterday. He did save a penalty though which is a feat in itself but I think Notts could do better in this department, having said that the defence obviously must share some of the blame.

Whats everyone’s thoughts on Stone.

[Piethagoram]

Too many mistakes by Stone, Brooks for #1

[Dripsey3]

Stone has had plenty of games and I hate to say it, but his performances haven't impressed me. We need a change. Brooks should be given a chance.

[Piethagoram]

For a stats based recruiting system, how did Stone slip through?

We played against some good keepers in the NL and I always recall Warnock plucking Paddy Kenny from Bradford Park Avenue

[Robbie]

Our defence is lacking confidence and I think that stems partly from the performance of Stone who's lacking confidence too, but it has to be said that I don't think Stone is comfortable with the way Luke wants him to play. Stone's not a good distributor, or is he comfortable on crosses either.

I think we do need a new goalie to come in asap.

 

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

Unfortunately, Stone isn't good enough in my opinion. He doesn't seem to have the confidence to play out from the back and his decision making is shocking at times. 

 

Slocombe is the better keeper of the 2, in the system we play.

 

Happy to see what Tiernan brings to the fold, else we need to dip into the transfer kitty.

 

 

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

The trouble we have is that the whole defensive unit is lacking confidence and the way we play highlights mistakes.  I don't think it is fair to single out any player as they are so interdependent.  A back 3 / 4 with no confidence in the keeper will take risks when they don't need to, a keeper without confidence in the backline won't be confident in their positioning and try to compensate.  Also, because we avoid putting the ball in row z at almost all costs the defence as a unit take chances other defences don't take on. Finally, our defensive unit is much more exposed than others because they are involved in so much more than defending and that extra time on the ball also brings pressure (which we see when teams press effectively).  None of this helps confidence, because I don't think our defenders are used to playing like this, and I wonder if they feel they are good enough to play like this.  I bet we would see very different performances all round if we did just stick it in the stands more, but I can't see that happening. 

The downside is that we depend on possession and passing it back to the opposition means our attacking play is disrupted.  I think there is a happy medium somewhere, but we haven't found it and I am not sure we are looking for it at the moment.  My other suspicion is our defence will look better the higher up the leagues we go.  I hope we find out.  

[Robbie]

Well put @Ohh Tommy Johnson agree with what you say.

All I would say is. If a system of play clearly isn't working it needs to be modified. What worked in the national league is clearly not working for us defensively in league two. We've scored several times by employing the direct approach. That & being more defensively minded may be an option when playing away.

[Ohh Tommy Johnson]

@Robbie__64 I agree that we should think about playing differently away.  In the NL we were so much better and took so many fans (comparatively) that we could make away games feel like home games.  I don't think we can do that in L2, also the teams have better intelligence on us and adapt more quickly, and we don't have that aura of invincibility that we (and Wrexham) had in the NL.  I think we will just see an adaptation of what we do already rather than resorting to a long ball game.

[Robbie]

@Ohh Tommy Johnson I agree, I wouldn't like us to change to a direct style even half of the time, because trying to play attractive football is great ethic and it must continue, but we see teams week after week now executing the same tactics to counter our style & unfortunately it is working, so we have to try to counter it. 

[DangerousSausage]

I agree with pretty much all of the above. All season I've had the impression that the percentage of the opposition's shots on goal that end up in the net is far too high. I don't think the defence and either keeper truly have confidence in each other, and it shows in some of the decision making on display.

I think it's a given that we'll try to strengthen at the back, but I'm less sure about the goalkeeper position as we've got three senior keepers already. I think Brooks will get his chance soon, but ideally I'd like to see a new face here too.

[liampie]

i dont think aidan stone is the worst keeper we could have at the club but he does sink when he concedes and we rely far too much on him. our defence, including defending from the midfield needs to be better. i think we need to be mindful that at this level keepers will make mistakes, however frustrating it can be.

we play with attacking at the fore front of out tactics at the cost of protecting the keeper.

i believe stone can improve and be a useful option, i like sam slocombe but feel he is weaker with playing the ball out from the back. otherwise he should be the main keeper, with stone as his understudy. i fear some will be throwing tiernan brooks into danger, as if he is not ready or ends up making mistakes it could be a repeat of fabian spiess. i am all for giving brooks a try out or a few games as a run our to see, but i would avoid pinning to much pressure on him.

[Fozzy]

A good keeper breeds confidence in their defenders, Stone does not do that. He isn’t very vocal, he should be barking orders at his defence and helping them out with positioning and spotting the runners.

He needs to come for crosses and not be glued to his line all the time.

Throw the ball out more, so often we miss counter attacks by our keepers holding onto the ball when a quick throw out is on.

He is too flat footed, which makes him slow to react.

That being said he isn’t being given much cover by defenders who just refuse to get tight to attackers (Brindley being the prime culprit) to deny shooting attempts.

Give Brooks a go, if he isn’t any better then we know to release him.

[Robbie]

I think your right about Stone @Fozzy  Brooks should be given a go, I think players on the fringe should be given a start like Junior just to give the opposition something different to think about. Giving Macaulay a free role seemed to work in the 3 games before Tranmere. Just doing something different. Do what the opposition don't want 

[liampie]

On 03/01/2024 at 00:20, Fozzy said:

A good keeper breeds confidence in their defenders, Stone does not do that. He isn’t very vocal, he should be barking orders at his defence and helping them out with positioning and spotting the runners.

david de gea struggled with manchaster united due to how they would make mistakes, especially harry maquire.

i know a solid keeper can give a calm influence to the defence, but its the same for defenders. if defenders and midfielders do their parts to protect the keeper, then you dont need to rely on them so much. our tactics and how high notts plays makes it a problem forever is in goal.

i think stone is perfectly fine, but i do agree that tiernan brooks should be given a run.

i just worry we might be rushing brooks, sooner or later he will need to be tested properly but we have had keepers in the past that we rushed due to issues and it often was that the tactics needed adjusting or a better player in a defensive positon were needed.

[KB1862]

Both Slocombe and Stone have disappointed me this season. More so Stone. 

As a goalkeeper myself, I do understand that when your defence isn't that great and they make mistakes, which there have been quite a few this season, it does hamper a goalkeepers confidence which then results in goalkeepers making mistakes themselves or not doing as well as they perhaps should. Having said that, some of the goals that have been let in are shocking to watch and more time than not it does make you think that they should have done much better than that. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Tiernan Brooks being given a shot. I've said it for the past couple of seasons now that perhaps it's time he should be given a run and with how poorly both keepers have performed this season, it might be a good opportunity for him.

[Robbie]

@KB1862 I do agree on Stone & Slocombe, however I think Luke has to take some criticism for continuing to play open possession football, especially for away games, & not gone to a plan B by being more defensive minded to protect our back 3 & goalie. A new Coach may be more defensive minded. i would welcome that in away games.

[KB1862]

@Robbie  yeah fully agree with the open possession football issue, especially from the back. Personally I've never been a fan of playing out from the back and keep ball near and around your own penalty box. I think it's the old philosophy of we'll score more than you hence the goals we've scored during the season but also defensive record is also very high. Same with playing a back 3, if you play that sort of formation and tactics you need to give them some sort of protection as you say about being defensive minded. 

[Fozzy]

Bit harsh on De Gea @liampie, he was Man Utd’s player of the season for 4 out of 5 seasons and players player in 21/22 season. He only had one bad season and that was the last one, but even now Utd fans would rather have him than Onana who has been dire.
You’re right, the defence does need to shield the keeper better but the keeper also has to help and direct the defence, and not talking, claiming crosses and better distribution.

Time for Brooks to show he’s good enough, he’ll be 21 this spring and it should be now or never for him.

[Chris]

The issue with young keepers is they will make mistakes. Tiernan Brooks most likely will, but it will help him learn from it. I believe a game could determine whether Brooks is prepared to further strengthen his skills, while Aidan Stone's development continues.

I think Notts fans have a tendency to be harsher on the keeper(s) than defenders.

I have criticised Richard Duffy multiple times on this platform and on social media. Only for people to defend him, he was dire!  We all see things differently, so please don't take this the wrong way but when the defence is criticised too, I have to make the point about the midfield being at fault too. It's never just one way issue though. I think Aidan Stone could prove himself here if we were more solid and less focused on passing back.

Ultimately, the new manager that comes in will have to choose about the situation with Sam Slocombe and Aidan Stone.

If we don't use the keeper to play it out from the back, and we have tactics focused on moving forward, creating spaces and into positions which the opposition must defend and therefore commit players to defending. We shouldn't need to rely on the defence; I am hoping we see a vast improvement from Kyle Cameron, Aden Baldwin etc with a different focus. Provided we can gain promotion this season or the next, the whole situation doesn't matter because we should improve in stages.

[Robbie]

On 02/01/2024 at 11:41, Super_Danny_Allsopp said:

Unfortunately, Stone isn't good enough in my opinion. He doesn't seem to have the confidence to play out from the back and his decision making is shocking at times. 

 

Slocombe is the better keeper of the 2, in the system we play.

 

Happy to see what Tiernan brings to the fold, else we need to dip into the transfer kitty.

 

 

I just don't think Stone fitted in well for Luke's style of play. I don't see Stone as a good distributor for playing out from the back. Maybe a new coach may have new ideas and Stone may fit into that new system.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

9 hours ago, Robbie said:

I just don't think Stone fitted in well for Luke's style of play. I don't see Stone as a good distributor for playing out from the back. Maybe a new coach may have new ideas and Stone may fit into that new system.

I'd be very surprised to see us shift from playing out from the back. The style of the club is clear and we recruit to match that style. 

9 hours ago, Chris said:

The issue with young keepers is they will make mistakes. Tiernan Brooks most likely will, but it will help him learn from it. I believe a game could determine whether Brooks is prepared to further strengthen his skills, while Aidan Stone's development continues.

I think Notts fans have a tendency to be harsher on the keeper(s) than defenders.

I have criticised Richard Duffy multiple times on this platform and on social media. Only for people to defend him, he was dire!  We all see things differently, so please don't take this the wrong way but when the defence is criticised too, I have to make the point about the midfield being at fault too. It's never just one way issue though. I think Aidan Stone could prove himself here if we were more solid and less focused on passing back.

Ultimately, the new manager that comes in will have to choose about the situation with Sam Slocombe and Aidan Stone.

If we don't use the keeper to play it out from the back, and we have tactics focused on moving forward, creating spaces and into positions which the opposition must defend and therefore commit players to defending. We shouldn't need to rely on the defence; I am hoping we see a vast improvement from Kyle Cameron, Aden Baldwin etc with a different focus. Provided we can gain promotion this season or the next, the whole situation doesn't matter because we should improve in stages.

We are currently at a stage where both Aidan Stone and Sam Slocombe are prone to mistakes. Agree the defence doesn't help, but the reality is that Stone doesn't save many and also gives the ball away.

[liampie]

14 hours ago, Fozzy said:

Bit harsh on De Gea @liampie, he was Man Utd’s player of the season for 4 out of 5 seasons and players player in 21/22 season. He only had one bad season and that was the last one, but even now Utd fans would rather have him than Onana who has been dire.
You’re right, the defence does need to shield the keeper better but the keeper also has to help and direct the defence, and not talking, claiming crosses and better distribution.

very prone to silly mistakes throughout his united career, great shot stopper and for relaxes but lack confidence to with their defence and would fall a part.

just to balance things.

keepers are nothing without a reliable defence in front of them, its a two way street. neither can work well without each other stepping up but its harder for a keeper when teams are having a higher amount of one on one chances.

[KB1862]

4 hours ago, liampie said:

very prone to silly mistakes throughout his united career, great shot stopper and for relaxes but lack confidence to with their defence and would fall a part.

just to balance things.

keepers are nothing without a reliable defence in front of them, its a two way street. neither can work well without each other stepping up but its harder for a keeper when teams are having a higher amount of one on one chances.

 

I like how you balanced it out with De Gea. Yes he was prone to quite a few mistakes, more than he should really, but nevertheless had it not been for De Gea, United would have potentially been lower down the table without him. He had a tendency to pull off some outstanding saves and help United gain a point or 3. Also comes back to the confidence issue I mentioned, when a back line is constantly exposing you you tend to make a few mistakes because there's a lack of belief in your back line. 

 

I was a bit sceptical of Stone coming in in the first place but I was hoping he'd prove me wrong and come good. The main factor for my doubt in him was that when he was sound emphasis was put on how good of a distributor he was of the ball and that he can fit in to a style of playing out from the back with good foot work. 

From a personal perspective, I'd much rather have a good shot stopper who commands a back line over a keeper with good footwork. The modern day goalkeeping has so much focus on playing out from the back being able to pick passes out from the back and in turn shot stopping, catching etc. all become secondary. 

[Robbie]

The modern game now requires much more from a goalkeeper, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago Keepers were expected to be proficient in Keeping duties and take goal kicks and punts up to the halfway line with the very occasional role out.

Now Keepers are expected to distribute, act as sweeper and pass the ball out just about every time they get the ball.

Some keepers are good at this some are not. 

I think nowadays a good all rounder will always be sought for, good on crosses, good shot stopper and distributor.