German Bundesliga

[DangerousSausage]

As most of the German football discussion is going on under "Best league", I've taken the liberty of opening a dedicated thread.

 

After 13 games Borussia Dortmund sit rock bottom of the table. Before the season started I thought this could be their year again with virtually all of Bayern's team having started pre-season late due to the World Cup. How wrong I was! Earlier in the season they were playing alright, creating chances but just nothing would fall for them.

 

The beauty of the Bundesliga is its unpredictability, Bayern apart. Who could imagine Manchester United actually battling relegation?

 

In other (entirely predictable) news, according to Kicker Lukas Podolski has said he'd love to play for his home town club Cologne again. It might not be his next move but he'll certainly end his career there.

[Feral Fox]

Great idea @DangerousSausage. Looks like we have our Bundesliga correspondent from here on in. (Apologies to anyone who already might do this. I'll admit to knowing not a lot about it, but maybe it's time to learn!)

[Chris]

I watched a euro soccer wind down show and 90% was based on the German league.

It mentioned how the Dortmund manager said he wouldn't resign and how they lost 2-0, very poor goals to concede but credit to whoever they played because they really did break them down. The players just seemed to stop after they went 1-0 down, I don't really claim to understand what is going on but I know they have some very talented players.

The manager or the players? Who's the problem?

I suspect both and unless the manager gets a grip on things, he'll be fired soon enough.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

My German team never make it to the heights of the Bundesliga. 

We got to Bundesliga II last season though, before being relegated

[liampie]

its funny how podolski did not succeed at arsenal, good player but he is not the same in the uk it seems. i think he should consider moving back to germany, their style suites him better.

dont know much about dortmund but are they disliked over there?

like we dislike united and chelski?

[Northants Pie]

For me the only unpredictable part of the Bundesliga is who will finish second, Bayern are like the top 4 of the premiership rolled into one. most of their "buying" of the league is not necessarily seen outside of Germany as they predominantly buy German players from other teams, most notably Dortmund, who in the words of their Cheif Executive "Bayern want to destroy us"

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29863449

[DangerousSausage]

I'd be better suited as a Regionalliga Südwest correspondent, but I don't think as many people are interested in that!

 

I watched Cologne a couple of times live when Podolski was playing for them. The way he motivated and basically carried the whole team was a sight to behold. However, there the team was built around him and he was always the first name on the teamsheet.

 

The Bundesliga title race has been seriously boring for the last three seasons, I'll give you that @Northants Pie. Bayern have a habit of buying up the best talent from their rivals, who then all fall out with each other when they're not getting game time, causing the team to underachieve, followed by another spending spree and so on. But in the last few years they seem to have developed some professionalism and are making their financial advantage count. Prior to that, although Bayern were always there or thereabouts, you never knew who'd be fighting it out with them - Stuttgart, Bremen or someone else? And in Dortmund, HSV, Stuttgart and Bremen, four genuinely massive clubs are fighting the drop.

 

On the flip side, big money is corrupting the Bundesliga too, just in a different way. Look at the billionaire's toy village club Hoffenheim and their plastic fans and Golfsburg, and RB Leipzig and Ingolstadt (sponsored by Audi) will be joining them soon enough. From the third division onwards, their B teams are distorting the competition. And like you say, Bayern's financial dominance and BVB's struggles are turning the top of the Bundesliga into a yawn-fest.

 

@liampie Bayern have the most "support" throughout Germany but are also widely disliked, a bit like Manchester United are. Dortmund also have a lot of plastic fans but seem to be far more popular. Maybe it's because they have been a welcome challenger over the last few years. They also have a charismatic manager who is a genuine football man - in August they came to Mannheim for a friendly, complete with their entire first team, players who hadn't played since the World Cup and Klopp, who had personally arranged the fixture with Waldhof's chief executive and was generally respectful and down-to-earth throughout.

[Northants Pie]

i understand that there seems to be a lot of animosity towards Red Bull, Volkswagen & Audi for the way they are approaching getting "their" teams into the Bundesliga, basically buying their way into the league, the difference between them & Bayern? Nothing for me, also from outside of Germany it does strike me that most of the moaning seems to be coming from either the Bayern board or there fans.

 

Unfortunately there seems to be little place in the modern game for genuine good guys and like u say Klopp is definitely one of them.

 

What is the feeling within Germany for Klopp's future if their run continues?

[DangerousSausage]

RB are very different to Bayern - at Bayern, Adidas and Telekom sponsor a long-established football club that was also successful before they got on board. Wolfsburg are unpopular but they had carved out an existence for themselves in the second/third division before VW really started pumping the money in. In addition, VW are based in Wolfsburg and see the club as their works team. As well as the football team, VfL Wolfsburg is a sports club with many thousands of members. Bayer Leverkusen is a similar case.

 

RB Leipzig are fundamentally different. They were created in 2009 purely as a marketing instrument for Red Bull. They leapfrogged the league pyramid by taking over a lower-division team and changing its name and colours. Red Bull has no roots in Leipzig whatsoever, the city was merely chosen by marketing execs due to the high population and the lack of higher division football. Mannheim, Kiel or Essen could just as easily have been picked.

 

Also, unlike other German clubs, RB Leipzig don't allow their fans to become voting members. This is a threat to the 50+1 ruling which stipulates that 50% plus one of the votes in football clubs should be held by members, and that membership must be available to all. The reason why German football is more fan-friendly is because the fans have real clout! To put it in context, other German clubs are generally also general sports clubs in which thousands of people get involved and vote. RB Leipzig on the other hand are a US-style franchise offering no community involvement or participation and with no roots in its host city. Yet the DFL is doing nothing to enforce its own rules.

 

It's not just Bayern who are complaining either - fans are protesting against this club every single week as they are a threat to fan culture and the idea that members should play an active role in football clubs. Union Berlin's fans kitted out the whole ground in black earlier this season: http://fanzeit.de/app/uploads/2014/09/imago17556027h-800x415.jpg

 

Klopp has been very successful, he turned a struggling club around, won two titles at a canter, the German cup and very nearly the Champions League. I can't really say what the general mood is but if any manager has earned a bit of time, he has. I don't think BVB will panic and sack him, they'll finish in mid-table.

[Blathers67]

Not a Fortuna Dusseldorf fan are you by any chance? My Bundesliga team are their equivalent of Aston Villa. Years ago they were qualifying for Europe and now just seem happy to be there. (Werder Bremen)

[DangerousSausage]

No, Waldhof Mannheim. Won promotion to the Bundesliga in 1983, relegated in the early 90s after topping the table earlier in the season, a period of respectability in the second tier but have been knocking around the lower divisions for a while, stripy shirts. The German equivalent of ... no, let's not go there 

 

[PTID1862]

what ever happened to Stuttgarter Kickers, I remember them in the Bundesliga back in the late 80's I think, from 85 to 88 and then from 90 to end of 1992 I watched my football at the Westfahlenstadion (Dortmund) and in between at unfashionable Allemagne Aachen.

[DangerousSausage]

Stuttgarter Kickers had a stint in the Regionalliga Südwest too, but they won promotion a couple of years back and are now halfway up the third division. I can't see them really making the big time again, they're a very modestly supported club in a city dominated by VfB.

 

Aachen were in the Bundesliga about ten years ago but now play in the Regionalliga after going into administration. They've got a shiny new stadium to show for it though.

[PTID1862]

Kickers sounds like a team I would like.... underdogs in a city, with a bigger team being bank rolled for success

[ivansneck]

Not as good as VfR Mannheim though...

[ivansneck]

Enjoying watching RB losing at home to Ingolstadt live on ESPN.

[DangerousSausage]

So, the Bundesliga kicked off this weekend. Bayern won as usual, mind you it was against HSV. Hoppenheim lost. Everyone's second favourite team Darmstadt got a point. And for some reason @ivansneck is being rather coy about how Mönchengladbach got on

Oh, and Waldhof are top of the league - the perfect tonic after Friday!

[Dripsey3]

Good start for Koln. 3-1 win away to Stuttgart. Avoid relegation and I'm happy. 

[upthepies]

I watched a game recently, I was impressed by just how enjoyable the German league is to watch.

It reminded me of the old days of watching our own top flight.

[AmericanPie]

I was more impressed by the fact only 1 game ended up as a draw, impressive opening day considering.

[ivansneck]

Good start for Koln. 3-1 win away to Stuttgart. Avoid relegation and I'm happy. 

If they avoid relegation I'll be unhappy!!

[ivansneck]

Gladbach's "horrorstart".

 

Missing Max Kruse (gone to Wolfsburg) and Christoph Kramer (gone back to Leverkusen), Borussia sit bottom of the league with no points from 3 games. It's going to be a long hard season...

[Dripsey3]

7 points from 9 for Koln. Very happy with that start. 

[Riverleeno]

I'll be following Arminia Bielefeld's fortunes in 2 Bundesliga.

[Super_Danny_Allsopp]

I'll be following Arminia Bielefeld's fortunes in 2 Bundesliga.

DSC! DSC!