Two things I don't want Notts to become

[ARLukomski]

As a club, Notts are doing well. We are bringing in young players and developing them and they intern are helping us move forward as a club

But these are two models we cannot replicate

1) Crewe. They flooded their team with youth players too fast, too soon and it has done nothing for them apart from plunder them into successive relegation battles. I'm not saying them players are bad, I'm saying you can't rush youth players (especially lots of them) too fast, too soon into the first team

2) Southampton and Barnsley. Buying players then sell them on. It doesn't move the club forward. It eventually caught up on both clubs. Southampton eventually made a wrong decision in appointing Pellegrino. They can somewhat get away with it as they are in the Premier League. For Barnsley, they weren't so fortunate. Barnsley sold Holgate, Mawson, Winnall, Bree, Hourihane, Roberts and MacDonald all within under two years. Added to that key players such as Scowen and Watkins left. The club just dropped back into League One. 

[CliftonMagpie]

You have to sell to accumulate, Notts will have to look at offloading some good players but the price must enable us to move towards strengthening rather than weakening. The problem in most cases is the short term sight. 

[Chris]

I would agree we need to be wary and, of course smart about how we developed players.

Early 00's Crewe has an amazing squad filled with promising youths, many of which was versatile like David Vaughan. The club actually looked to be going places, yet it never worked out but I don't think it can be said it's due to selling their players. Poor manages and bad decisions by the club led to many of the problems and when you have talented youngsters you really do need to have a clear path with regards to moving forward.

Dean Ashton, Ben Rix and Richard Walker all looked like decent prospects in addition to Vaughan, it's only natural that they ended up selling the standouts.

They got a lot more money for Ashton and, they didn't seem to reinvest the money very well. Vaughan got sold too cheaply, especially considering where he ended up - they could have easily squeezed a million out of Real Sociedad.

Southampton on the other hand used money from selling youngsters back when they struggled to get out of League One quite well, they managed to hold the better prospects and that repelled them back into the Premier League, this kind of success is always going to be hard retaining the players and they should have used the silly fees they got for players like Adam Lallana better.

Just look at Notts County in the early 90's, we did the exact same thing and sold our promising players too quickly and failed to reinvest the money wisely - albeit we did get Meadow Lane redeveloped.

However, we have to retain our young players first and then know who can be sold and which players can strengthen the squad after. If we sold and reinvested the money in players and the academy things should improve and a proper pathway into the first can be established because there's that incentive of further progressing from adapting the times.

[Magic magpie]

@ARLukomski that’s a great topic mate and a great read I have to agree with you mate. I hope we don’t make those errors or maybe more.😊 it would be a shame after all the progress 

[liampie]

i think its bound to happen that we sell players too cheaply or find it hard to keep hold of them, but provided the investment in the club matches the expectations on the pitch to do well we should be okay.

looking at other clubs should not be on our minds, we need our own ideas.

[ScottyP]

The balance right now seems about right with a mixture of experience and inexperience, it sounds like Patchings and Crawford have quality they just need time to get a feel for this league.

My only concern is signing too many players which leads to unrest within the dressing room.

[The Heff]

16 hours ago, ARLukomski said:

1) Crewe. They flooded their team with youth players too fast, too soon and it has done nothing for them apart from plunder them into successive relegation battles. I'm not saying them players are bad, I'm saying you can't rush youth players (especially lots of them) too fast, too soon into the first team

Notts have rushed young players themselves in the past, but the clubs also guilty of not giving them a fair chance. You have to balance things, rewarding young players who do well with game time is the right direction to go but experience heads around them is also important.

16 hours ago, ARLukomski said:

2) Southampton and Barnsley. Buying players then sell them on. It doesn't move the club forward. It eventually caught up on both clubs. Southampton eventually made a wrong decision in appointing Pellegrino. They can somewhat get away with it as they are in the Premier League. For Barnsley, they weren't so fortunate. Barnsley sold Holgate, Mawson, Winnall, Bree, Hourihane, Roberts and MacDonald all within under two years. Added to that key players such as Scowen and Watkins left. The club just dropped back into League One. 

Selling too many players always changes the dynamics of a squad.

Southampton are guilty of cashing in on their good players, it worked when they got relegated to League One but its failed since. Opting to replace English talent for Spanish players who are inexperienced within the English game hasn't helped either.

I think we are a long way off from making either of these mistakes.

[ARLukomski]

@The Heff I agree with the balancing of players, having experienced and younger players. That's what I was trying to get at. Crewe rushed players and it's got them nowhere. 

[lambleypie]

I think we are several seasons a way from injecting more youngsters into the squad, Nolan seems reliant on having experienced heads and I just cannot see him going with too many inexperienced players.

I don't think you have to worry about this but selling the good players we have is always a possibility.

After the good seasons we have experienced, Notts will have to maintain the squad and keep other clubs away from picking up the key players otherwise the progress won't be as good.

[Natty]

When we bring in promising young players like Tom Crawford and Will Patching, and give pro contracts to home-grown lads like Alex Howes, the idea is of course that they will develop into good players and help the first team to future success. If they do that, its inevitable, even if we climb up a division or two, that there will be bigger clubs interested in taking them. Quite apart from the financial benefits to the club of selling a player for a decent fee, its not morally right to hold onto a young player if he has a chance to make his name at a higher level.

There can be a temptation to bring on too many kids in the hope of cashing in later. But I don't think for a minute Notts will go too far that way. Nolan has brought in experience for his first XI. Howes, Crawford and Patching will be seen as "for the future" just like Noor Husin. If they can break into the first team and hold their own, then great. But they won't be considered first choice players just yet. Wouldn't surprise me if they went out on loan, maybe to the National League, to gain first team experience. 

As for Crewe, I think there was/is a financial situation at Gresty Rd which forced their hand a bit, and meant they had to rely on young (ie cheap) players rather than bringing in experienced senior players. If you're as old as me you'll remember the Notts squad of the mid 1980s which included the likes of Paul Smalley, Darren Davis, David Clarke, Tim Dalton, Tony Daws, Mark Jones, Simeon Hodson, and David Beaver.  All home-grown youngsters, all full time professionals at 18, but all (with the exception of Clarke) playing part-time by the time they were 22. Notts didn't have two pennies to rub together at the time....our then manager Larry Loyd once told the press he had to ask permission from the chairman to buy a postage stamp. So they were forced to offer pro forms to many more of their youth team squad than they normally would've done. They paid the price by being relegated to the old Division Three. 

 

 

 

[liampie]

brill post @Natty 

very interesting to see your post, especially the notts part.

[BromPie]

Provided Notts avoids selling all their best players and hoping the manager can get new signings to replicate what has been previously achieved, the club will be okay. If you build and dismantle a team, you are only asking for trouble and its hard to repeat.

Successful teams know which players can be sold as an asset and in turn be used to strengthen, not weaken.

This is what Notts must avoid.

[upthepies]

I would rather see Notts sell some players than to give them a way for free or to lose them on a free transfer.

Notts have always been a selling club for as long as I can remember but I would agree, the issue is when you sell players that form the team. If you sell the odd player you should be able to replace them, but you can't do this with the whole team. Strengthening over weakening is the key, money is good but progress is better long term.

[Magic magpie]

Right now I’m just thinking about the positives ..! But the thought that it could wrong and become the two things is scary but I don’t think we’ll pray it don’t.

[Natty]

Years ago, during the Warnock era, I had a conversation with Mick Walker, who was youth team coach at the time. In those days they would take on ten YTS trainees (now called "scholars") each year, so that the youth squad would consist of twenty players.....ten first year and ten second year trainees. I think that's the way it still works to this day.

Mick told me that if just TWO of each batch of ten went on to play professional football......wether at Notts or anywhere else......it was considered a successful year for the club's youth setup. I think overall during Mick's years as youth coach they probably beat that "target", but it gives you an idea of what the club expected at that time from its youth policy. 

Times....and standards.....have changed since then. Expectations probably have, too. 

[Truefootballfan]

Any youth policy is an unknown. Kids will sometimes never reach their promised potential as they mature. Others are cast aside only to be late developers a few years later, No one really knows how they will end up. 

Look at Chelsea! They spend a fortune on youth development but how many of their kids break through into the first team, or even the premier league for that matter.

there has to be a balance and with the correct management a decent balance could be achieved.

i would be so frustrated if I was a Southampton fan, they should be a top 10 club if they hadn’t sold off their youngsters. They can’t be that bad off surely!

[Northants Pie]

On 09/06/2018 at 22:00, ARLukomski said:

As a club, Notts are doing well. We are bringing in young players and developing them and they intern are helping us move forward as a club

But these are two models we cannot replicate

1) Crewe. They flooded their team with youth players too fast, too soon and it has done nothing for them apart from plunder them into successive relegation battles. I'm not saying them players are bad, I'm saying you can't rush youth players (especially lots of them) too fast, too soon into the first team

2) Southampton and Barnsley. Buying players then sell them on. It doesn't move the club forward. It eventually caught up on both clubs. Southampton eventually made a wrong decision in appointing Pellegrino. They can somewhat get away with it as they are in the Premier League. For Barnsley, they weren't so fortunate. Barnsley sold Holgate, Mawson, Winnall, Bree, Hourihane, Roberts and MacDonald all within under two years. Added to that key players such as Scowen and Watkins left. The club just dropped back into League One. 

I think in time & learning you will understand the model of both clubs.

Crewe's downfall had nothing to do with the players, bad management, the rumblings of the sex scandal long before it broke and the suicide of a well known someone due to the aforementioned scandal were the catalyst for their downfall.

As for Barnsley just how much revenue do you think these clubs generate against outgoings? You are talking about wage bills in the region of £30,000,000 p/a as an average. Where does this money come from? Thin Air? You also forgot their best player of the last 25 years that they sold in John Stones.

Southampton have / had a nice new ground to pay for, alongside at that level the game is an altogether different kettle of fish with average playes for that level earning around £2,000,000 a year, again, where does that money come from?

[ARLukomski]

34 minutes ago, Northants Pie said:

I think in time & learning you will understand the model of both clubs.

Crewe's downfall had nothing to do with the players, bad management, the rumblings of the sex scandal long before it broke and the suicide of a well known someone due to the aforementioned scandal were the catalyst for their downfall.

As for Barnsley just how much revenue do you think these clubs generate against outgoings? You are talking about wage bills in the region of £30,000,000 p/a as an average. Where does this money come from? Thin Air? You also forgot their best player of the last 25 years that they sold in John Stones.

Southampton have / had a nice new ground to pay for, alongside at that level the game is an altogether different kettle of fish with average playes for that level earning around £2,000,000 a year, again, where does that money come from?

This is recent times. Crewe being in relegation battles since 2013-14 and Barnsley ever since they got back into the championship in 2016. Southampton also since they got back into the premier league in 2012

[Northants Pie]

Just because it wasn't in the Beano until 2 years ago doesn't mean it hasn't been known or investigated by the Police for years. 

Remind me when did Gary Speed commit suicide?

Also regards Barnsley, do you suddenly believe that in the last 12 months the championship wages have sky rocketed? 

FFS i tried to lead you to the answer but obviously only the last 12 months count

[Northants Pie]

I must point out that my reference to the beano was a reference to the sun newspaper, I call it thr beano due to its childish reporting