Southgate and England

**KB1862** · October 14, 2020

As controversial as this may be, I'm getting fed up with Southgate and his negative tactics. Not saying he should be sacked, but something needs to change.

His whole thing is supposedly about picking players on form but yet we seem to see the same few players play game in game out even if there are players in better form.

Pickford, Kane, Maguire. The selected 3.

Grealish came on in the 0-0 v Denmak last month and created more chances in 15 minutes than any other player did in 90. He also won man of the match and was involved with the goals against Wales in his first start for England. What more does the guy has to do? Maybe if he was a defender or defensive mid, he might stand a chance. Southgate loves them.

5 defenders, 2 defensive midfielders and they wonder why we are struggling on the attacking front despite attack being our strongest point.

Tactically he seems to get it wrong and tonight is up there with the worst. Maguire gets sent off, rather than going to a flat back 4 and keep Maitland Niles and Reece James who were both dominant on their sides, Southgate chooses to sub Maitland Niles for Mings and goes to the flat back 4 switching James to the left.

Nick Pope & Dean Henderson are miles ahead of Pickford. I mean Pickford pushed Walker in the penalty lead up.

Unless Southgate switches his tactics, I can't see us progressing. Would of thought the win against Belgium would have boosted us but now it feels like it may have been an off day for Belgium and a lucky result for us.

**Super_Danny_Allsopp** · October 15, 2020

Starting to agree.

The amount of talent we have in attacking areas, yet we have Rashford and Kane isolated up there supported by nobody.

Our weakest areas are in the centre of midfield and centre of defence. Southgate's solution? More mediocre central midfielders, more mediocre defenders.

**Chris** · October 15, 2020

He's got to be given another major tournament, losing to Denmark means nothing.

The Nations League is nothing more than a glorified friendly, which I see him as being somewhat of an experimentalist with. Whilst, I do agree that his squad selections can leave some areas weak, I do feel for once some of the players are being given a fairer chance and, not always biased on reputation. No other manager has managed to bring in a young and, hungry squad which does have somewhat of a transitional period.

Harry Maguire has been a victim of joining a sinking ship, he's very much out of form and, that falls to United but Southgate could address it with selecting players in form.

How many good English centre backs is there out there?

Everyone is quick to hype players when they're doing well, just like with what happened with Jordan Pickford.

The moment criticism falls, it's hard to see past.

The players also have a lot of responsibility for failing to perform well themselves, it's not always the manager, but I do feel Gareth Southgate deserves more time.

**KB1862** · October 15, 2020

@Super_Danny_Allsopp Exactly, there's so much talent being wasted up in attack. I'm fine with defensive midfielders but not 2 of them when we have a back 5. The wing backs don't even get utilised enough. The other thing is Kane should not be a lone striker, he drops to deep.

**KB1862** · October 15, 2020

@Chris few months ago, i would have agreed with you about him being given more time but it's not just the Denmark game last night.

1-0 against Iceland through a late penalty and they missed theirs minutes later. There was no show in that game. Followed by another mediocre performance against Denmark in a 0-0. We got lucky against Belgium, they had an off day and on a good day they'd have had 5/6 in a game like that. The only recent good game we had was against Wales and even that wasn't brilliant, they were playing a 3rd string team really. If they had the likes of Bale, Ramsey and Co. available probably would have struggled. The good thing about the Wales game was the fact we had Grealish, who took his well deserved chance.

I'd love to know where the experimental team comes in to the Nations League because the team he selects for these 'glorified friendlies' are his strongest 11. His go to players. The team last night apart from Sterling & Trippier being unavailable is his strongest 11, it's the same team that beat Belgium. The Nations League is competitive as commentators said. Teams are playing strong teams because it's a competition.

Jordan Pickford, just like every other goalkeeeper before him, has got complacent and with complacency comes mistakes. Pope after that game against Wales and last season is miles ahead of Pickford. As for Maguire, United are giving him time out because he's obviously not right mentally since the summer but Southgate still sticks him in.

2 games against Denmark & 1 against Iceland and we played defensively. Come on, something's wrong about that. Yet he doesn't change formation or players. He sticks with the same and the same result occurs we struggle to score. It doesn't take a genius to think we're 1-0 down we need a creative midfielder, Grealish on.

There's actually alot of good English defenders but because they aren't in the top 6 they won't get a look in. Lewis Dunk for example.

At first, he did give players chances and call young players up but now as he's settled in the job he's become like every other England manager and chose reputation over form. But when you look at the game time given to these players who are new call ups which he is supposedly credited for, it's very little. Ings, Calvert Lewin, Pope, Coady, Grealish all deserve shots but aren't given much chance. Apart from a friendly against Wales.

**TheSkipper** · October 15, 2020

I am with @Chris on this, but I do agree that Jordan Pickford is in shocking form.

He has been ever since he joined Everton.

**KB1862** · October 15, 2020

@TheSkipper Hence, why I don't buy into Southgate's "form over rep" Pope and Henderson are in much better form.

Along with many others.

**TheSkipper** · October 15, 2020

Pickford has the experience on the international scene though, Henderson will get that chance eventually. If he replaces de Gea [who is part of United's downfall] he should get that opportunity.

He's only 23 years old, whereas I don't want him being thrown in for the sake of it.

Pickford was rushed into the national setup, there is a lot of pressure attached to that but I think Henderson will get a chance to come in. Pope has the experience in years, but honestly I don't rate him that much.

**KB1862** · October 15, 2020

@TheSkipper experience on the international scene means nothing when you're in bad form. He even brought it into the England squad against Spain last year when he fouled a Spanish player. Again last night he's the reason walker gave a penalty away.

Pope deserves his shot and if these are 'glorified friendlies' then why not experiment?

liampie · October 16, 2020

i hope he gets longer, hes got us further with less hope than a lot of managers who had more "experience" and arguably better players. i think every manager tends to have a rough patch, just see how he does in the next major competition.

he knows the young players better than anyone, he can get the best out of them i feel.

**KB1862** · October 16, 2020

@liampie he doesn't though, he's wasting a lot of talent by calling them up with no proper shot. He may have done in the past but now he's picking his regulars.

I'll happily have him in the next tournament BUT only IF he changes formation and gives players like Grealish who deserves chances to play and drops Pickford and Co.

He did well in the World Cup because of the formation but then he changes it, we did well. Then it was changed again and is we're going backwards. 2 formations that worked he changed and the one that doesn't he keeps.

Alex · October 17, 2020

@KB1862

How do you want to change something and keep Southgate?
And who was the last team manager without negative tactics? Even when England had kind of dream-team with Gerrard&Lampard&Co...

What about Jordan Pickford, he is Everton fans as well as club headache. He is weak link, but it is too hard to replace him of his price and salary. Carlo Ancelotti said: "He is a great goalkeeper. He has my total confidence." But I think he said this to be polite to Jordan. Gareth Southgate is in better position than Ancelotti, but probably he bow to Ancelotti, if Carlo said: "He is a great goalkeeper" it means he is a REALLY GREAT goalkeeper

**KB1862** · October 17, 2020

@Alex that's my point, managers like Southgate come in and say they are gonna choose form over reputation but they always go to the reputation side of things.

Southgate is capable, he's shown it in the World Cup (apart from playing Kane when he was struggling after the Colombia game) and the Nations League last year. All he has to do is change formation and make sensible changes when the game is crying out for one.

100% Ancelotti will change Pickford when he can. Southgate has the power to drop him without wasting wages.

DonnyNotts · October 17, 2020

We did not have a particularly good team selection against Denmark, quite how grealish was not picked to start is beyond me. I agree Southgate is too negative with his selection and tactics, and I believe Kane drops deep out of frustration and to get involved. Not sure what the answer is though, we don't really have a vast choice of top class English managers, and call me old fashioned, but I think he should be English.

**KB1862** · October 17, 2020

@DonnyNotts 100% we should stay English. We haven't had a good manager since Sven.

The solution is for Southgate to start playing players on form, drop those who aren't and stop playing negative football.

Kane drops deep because he's not a number 9 in this England set up. It was clear against Denmark when Mount had ball he should of been in the 6 yard box but came close and scuffed it.

liampie · October 18, 2020

On 17/10/2020 at 03:45, Alex said:

How do you want to change something and keep Southgate?

this is a very good question.

On 16/10/2020 at 17:14, KB1862 said:

@liampie he doesn't though, he's wasting a lot of talent by calling them up with no proper shot. He may have done in the past but now he's picking his regulars.

I'll happily have him in the next tournament BUT only IF he changes formation and gives players like Grealish who deserves chances to play and drops Pickford and Co.

He did well in the World Cup because of the formation but then he changes it, we did well. Then it was changed again and is we're going backwards. 2 formations that worked he changed and the one that doesn't he keeps.

i hope he gets the message, i dont feel you unlike some england fans want him to fail. thats clearly not the case.

what i do feel is, we dont afford a manager the most important thing which is time. if he does not succeed in the next major competition than it might be time for him to go, but hes the manager and just like notts we dont see how players train, what there attitudes are like off the pitch or what hes thinking as a manager.

**KB1862** · October 18, 2020

@liampie i get the training thing but the formation hasn't worked on numerous occasions, players have performed and not prformrd, he needs to realise this!

allardyces tash · October 19, 2020

I would give him longer, he's done well until now. England are just a very average team, he has restored a lot of faith and passion. He's given younger players a chance and he might have favourites but so does every manager.

upthepies · October 19, 2020

I'm not at the stage where I feel his position is requiring the sack, he's done better than most and just needs to find a system that works best. Under his reign a lot of young players and some senior experienced people have been given a chance that not many would have done.

I think it's worth giving him longer.

**KB1862** · October 19, 2020

@allardyces tash he did restore passion, you're right. But now he's burning his own bridge that he built. He has his favourites but that's why fans are angry, he says players are picked on form. He's going against his own points.

@upthepies the only time players have been given a real chance apart from the world cup, have all been friendlies. Now he's been in the job awhile, he's ignoring them.

**CliftonMagpie** · October 20, 2020

If England had been beaten heavier by some of these teams, I would be more positioned to say he should go but he can't help a defender conceding a stupid penalty. Yes, he picks the players but those are the ones he knows/has faith in.

**KB1862** · October 20, 2020

@CliftonMagpie it's not about the margin of defeat, the fact was Denmark dominated us and made us look weak. We couldn't even break on them because of the defensive shape. Same with the games against Iceland and the reverse fixture against Denmark.

As I've said, I'm not saying he should go. I'm just getting fed up of seeing him pick the same under performers despite having the "form over rep" motto and playing a defensive shape that has failed on more than one occasion.

As for the penalty, Pickford (one of Southgates golden boys) was at fault for the penalty.

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